$5000 Audio Gear Upgrade: Benefits & Regrets

[DeadBeatAnon]

Retired DoD sysadmin. I upgraded my audio gear this winter (before discovering ASR). I have two rooms with audio gear:
1) Living Room with a 5.1 home theater system.
2) Computer Den that’s open to dining room & kitchen. Desktop system with headphones + pair of external speakers.

Home Theater: existing equipment—Yamaha HTR-5960 (no HDMI), Yamaha NS Series speakers. Polk PSW-10 subwoofer.

HTR Upgrade: Marantz Cinema60/7.1 ($1800). Result = Regret. The Marantz is ok, but I could’ve saved quite a bit with a $1000 Yamaha Aventage HTR. One thing I like about the Marantz is you can set separate crossovers for Front/Center/Surrounds. But I hate Marantz’s HEOS, which is their streamer app—you have to sign up to it before making a wireless connection. It’s also a tracker. I’ve opted out of this completely.

Speaker Upgrade/Front & Surround: Wharfedale 5.2 EVO ($1400) front / Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 ($400) surrounds. Result = Benefit.
The Wharfedale speakers really perform well. Warm sound, not harsh like the Yamaha NS series.

Speaker Upgrade/Center Speaker: Polk-XT35 ($230). Result = Regret. Ok for home theater, terrible for music. Truth be told, I'm never happy with any center channel speaker.

I didn’t upgrade my subwoofer, the Polk PSW-10 is a nice budget sub, no complaints.

Desktop System: Existing equipment— Mac Mini M4 with my large private music lib, a mix of WAV and AAC files. Pioneer HDJ-2000 headphones. I gave my Sony receiver/bookshelf speakers to my son. I moved my old Yamaha HTR-5960 from the living room to the den.

Speakers: ELAC Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52 ($600). Result = Benefit. The ELACs are crisp 3 way speakers. They fill the open space from my den to dining room to kitchen. Nice listening environment when cooking or having a meal.

DAC: Fosi ZD3: Result=Benefit. Nice kit, small footprint. Needed external DAC since my Yamaha HTR is 20 years old.

If you’re thinking about upgrading your gear, I recommend upgrading your speakers first, that’s probably your best bang for the buck.

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

Additional notes here: I was recently on Wharfedale’s site—they had the EVO 4.2 pair for $719 (liquidating the previous version). That’s an unbelievable bargain, half the price I paid for the EVO 5.2 pair.

Regarding the Marantz Cinema60 config: you can set impedance down to 4 ohms, which matches my new Wharfedale EVO 5.2 fronts. That’s one of the main reasons I bought the Cinema60 HTR—I’m pretty sure the EVO 4.2 have the same impedance level. Another benefit of the Cinema60 HTR: setting crossover separately for front/center/surround. The EVO 5.2 (front) lowest frequency response is 44 Hz, so I set front crossover = 60 Hz; the Polk XT-35 lowest frequency response is 84 Hz, so I set Center Crossover = 100 Hz; the Diamonds lowest frequency response is 66 Hz, so Surround Crossover = 80. With my setup, you don’t want to leave a default crossover at 80 Hz—that Polk center will rattle at low frequencies. My understanding is crossover is a “slow rollover”—it doesn’t switch immediately to sub at the set value, but will gradually roll over. So I set crossover at approx 15 Hz higher than the lowest frequency for that speaker.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

HEOS

WiiM over HEOS. All day, every day.

Not too late ie low cost add-on.

 

[Puddingbuks]

If you’re thinking about upgrading your gear, I recommend upgrading your speakers first, that’s probably your best bang for the buck.

I would recommend treating your room with some absorption panels to lower the reverberation. Can be done in a way that is visually pleasing :

Next up is using and optimizing with DSP and speaker placement to mitigate peaks and nulls in the frequency response.

Edit: I was wrong about this: (You have a marantz cinema 60, which can be upgraded with Dirac. Use a measurement mic like the umik1 or 2 to measure the room response and adjust to your liking.)

This will cost you about 1.000 - 2.000 dollar / euro, depending on what you choose for acoustic panels.

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

I would recommend treating your room with some absorption panels to lower the reverberation. Can be done in a way that is visually pleasing

I've thought about room treatment--we have a large MIRROR right behind the living room couch. My wife wanted that mirror when we first bought our home--so there's an enormous pane of glass directly behind my primary listening position. She leaves for Taiwan this summer to visit her family. I may pull a switcheroo and find a tasteful acoustic panel (like you recommend) to replace the mirror.

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

WiiM over HEOS. All day, every day.

Not too late ie low cost add-on.

Question on this issue. On my Mac Mini M4, I've got a large private music library (150 GB), a mix of WAV and AAC files--using Apple Music for playback only. No worries when using my desktop system in my den. But what's the smartest way to make that music library available to my home theater in my living room. I'd rather not use wireless/bluetooth. I've thought about copying my music lib folder to a 500 GB SSD external drive. What would be the best way to connect that drive to the Marantz Cinema60. I'm really distrustful of Marantz's HEOS. I looked at WiiM, but no USB in? I've also looked at Apple TV, but again--no USB in. Thanks.

 

[ppierre]

Personally I settled on Moode Audio Player on a Raspberry PI.
ASR thread : 'moOde audio player for Raspberry Pi'

 

[ShadowBoxer]

But what's the smartest way to make that music library available to my home theater in my living room.

UpNP - which the WiiM can access from the Mac acting as music server (over WiFi).

 

[Puddingbuks]

I've thought about room treatment--we have a large MIRROR right behind the living room couch. My wife wanted that mirror when we first bought our home--so there's an enormous pane of glass directly behind my primary listening position. She leaves for Taiwan this summer to visit her family. I may pull a switcheroo and find a tasteful acoustic panel (like you recommend) to replace the mirror.

Maybe, just maybe, she doesn’t notice this switcheroo.

 

[Redacted]

Question on this issue. On my Mac Mini M4, I've got a large private music library (150 GB), a mix of WAV and AAC files--using Apple Music for playback only. No worries when using my desktop system in my den. But what's the smartest way to make that music library available to my home theater in my living room. I'd rather not use wireless/bluetooth. I've thought about copying my music lib folder to a 500 GB SSD external drive. What would be the best way to connect that drive to the Marantz Cinema60. I'm really distrustful of Marantz's HEOS. I looked at WiiM, but no USB in? I've also looked at Apple TV, but again--no USB in. Thanks.

150GB is a 'modest sized' library. I have a portion of mine on a 512GB on microSD in the car.

TBH, it's a waste of disk space and network traversal bandwidth to keep any files as WAVs - you could bulk drop and drag the lot into say, fre:ac (et al.) and convert the lot in one click to FLACs. It will save a lot of time when backing up the files too.

Forget Bluetooth for anything except between phone or car, and PC peripherals is my view.

But as shadowboxer says, use your LAN!

If you run a DLNA/UPnP server on the MAc or PC whatever, so long as it switched on, every device in your house can get get music, films and photos from it. As said, a Wiim, or all similar streaming devices, proabably also a Marantz unit, can get and play music, and it's bit perfect, plus if you have videos on the PC, any smart TV in the house, or phone, or tablet will be able to show those videos.

At risk of repeating from other threads, I happen to like this one for utter simplicity (I use the windows version but there is a Mac one) - install, set up a user password or not, point it to any/all media folders, press scan - and you're done.

Universal Media Server | Downloads

Stream your media to your devices, whether they are TVs, smartphones, gaming consoles, computers, audio receivers, and more!

www.universalmediaserver.com

On my phone and tablet I use Foobar2000 to play audio files and playlists. My streamer unit has its own client to play music, just like the Wiim does. I use 'VLC' to play videos.

If you fear complexity or cost - don't; it's all free, simple to get going, non-destructive if you don't like it, and loads of people on this site can help.

[Edit - if buy a disk as you mention, you'll need it in a USB case or a dock to connect it, and then you still have to think about what you do to back that disk up]

 

[ATB]

UpNP - which the WiiM access from the Mac acting as music server (over WiFi).

I recently setup Lyrion Music server on my Mac mini to play to various WiiMs I have in the house.

 

[Redacted]

On following your link, I know it and I have used it before - I even remember it when it was LMS!
I don't recall why I switched to UMS, but many of these free servers are very good - it probably comes down to which UI you like best.

The ones to avoid, if all you need is music, IMHO, are ones that are oriented more towards online video streaming (accessing Netflix etc), and integrating several platforms), as they are full of bloat and therefore more bugs, and some people say many track and report what you do but thats a story for another day.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

Regarding the Marantz Cinema60 config: you can set impedance down to 4 ohms, which matches my new Wharfedale EVO 5.2 fronts. That’s one of the main reasons I bought the Cinema60 HTR

Wharfedale doesn`t offer the bigger 3-way design anymore with the new EVO 5 line. If you can find used EVO 4.C and can fit it with TV wall mounted then consider it!

EVO4.C Center Channel Speaker

Wharfedale’s new EVO4 has grown out of the extensive research and development that produced the ELYSIAN flagship loudspeakers and borrows much of the technology involved in ELYSIAN.

www.wharfedaleusa.com

Impedance varies by frequency. You should not lower the impedance setting from the default setting or set ECO mode to "On"! I would make sure the AVR has plenty of space at the sides and above. Change the impedance setting back to 8-ohm!

Amplifier Ventilation Recommendation

support.marantz.com

Remember to disable Loudness Management by playing some film with Dolby soundtrack and then going into the menu. Otherwise you won´t see it there!

Surround Parameter CINEMA 60

manuals.marantz.com

Taken from Marantz SR8015 Audioholics review which applies to any current models:

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

Wharfedale doesn`t offer the bigger 3-way design anymore with the new EVO 5 line. If you can find used EVO 4.C and can fit it with TV wall mounted then consider it!
Impedance varies by frequency. You should not lower the impedance setting from the default setting...Change the impedance setting back to 8-ohm!

If your speakers are rated at 4 ohms, and your HTR is capable of supporting 4/6/8 ohm speakers, then why would setting the HTR to 4 ohms "rob your speakers of power"? If I understand Ohm’s law correctly:

I = V/R. The lower the denominator (R = resistance), the higher the current (I).

The Wharfedale 5.2 EVO Bookshelf speaker is three-way, check specs below. The EVO 5 Center speaker is two-way.

https://www.wharfedaleusa.com/produ...jQkPfBOld_4M1H7KPfdnu6AxP2RVTKiZXa3wFMfx1o8uk

 

[SynthesisCinema]

If your speakers are rated at 4 ohms, and your HTR is capable of supporting 4/6/8 ohm speakers, then why would setting the HTR to 4 ohms "rob your speakers of power"? If I understand Ohm’s law correctly:

I = V/R. The lower the denominator (R = resistance), the higher the current (I).

The Wharfedale 5.2 EVO Bookshelf speaker is three-way, check specs below. The EVO 5 Center speaker is two-way.

https://www.wharfedaleusa.com/produ...jQkPfBOld_4M1H7KPfdnu6AxP2RVTKiZXa3wFMfx1o8uk

It lowers the rail voltage and limits current. @peng as an EE could probably explain it better if needed. The article should open it more.

Setting the A/V Receiver Impedance Selector Switch

This article explores the purpose and function of the impedance switch found on some A/V receivers. Tradeoffs of following manufacturers recommended settings are also discussed. YouTube video inside.

www.audioholics.com

Example the Japan made Denon X5200W (140w 2ch 8-ohm spec) in test by Gene D.S with +30 years experience of measuring amps;

" With the low setting engaged, no matter how many channels were driven, the output was limited to about 25 watts/channel with one channel driven and significantly less with all channels driven (18watts for seven channels driven). Denon jumped on the impedance switch bandwagon to get the UL 4 ohm rating, butseverely choked off performance in doing so. Regardless of whatever speaker impedance youhave, under NO circumstance do I EVER recommend using the low impedancesetting. Just leave it at the default 8ohm setting and forget there is even an option to change it. "

 

[EWL5]

I would recommend treating your room with some absorption panels to lower the reverberation. Can be done in a way that is visually pleasing :

View attachment 531306

View attachment 531307

Next up is using and optimizing with DSP and speaker placement to mitigate peaks and nulls in the frequency response.

Edit: I was wrong about this: (You have a marantz cinema 60, which can be upgraded with Dirac. Use a measurement mic like the umik1 or 2 to measure the room response and adjust to your liking.)

This will cost you about 1.000 - 2.000 dollar / euro, depending on what you choose for acoustic panels.

Cinema 60 can't be upgraded to Dirac (you need the Cinema 50 at minimum).

https://www.dirac.com/products/room-correction

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

It lowers the rail voltage and limits current. @peng as an EE could probably explain it better if needed. The article should open it more.

I noticed your source is 10 years old. That seems like a long time in a tech field. Anyone else want to weigh in on this issue? I’m not being combative—I’m genuinely confused now.

 

[EWL5]

I noticed your source is 10 years old. That seems like a long time in a tech field. Anyone else want to weigh in on this issue? I’m not being combative—I’m genuinely confused now.

We know this is still an issue because there are machines being tested that exhibit this behavior (unintended or not).

Limp Mode Debunked?

I believe most of us are already familiar with the "limp mode" that Amir experienced from his 4-ohm bench tests of certain PAC AVRs that came out in 2021. In the Pioneer 505 re-test thread, I had recently posed the theory that this "limp mode" may be caused by a permanent 4-ohm setting under a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[ZolaIII]

I noticed your source is 10 years old. That seems like a long time in a tech field. Anyone else want to weigh in on this issue? I’m not being combative—I’m genuinely confused now.

What else should it do (switch)?
If you come earlier you would probably buy Denon instead. I don't know or even want to go surround talk really, hard to find a good mid one to recommend. Would probably recommend Polk R series posably with R700 mains and R200 surround one's. Cuple of at least 12" sub's.

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

From the Marantz Cinema60 manual:

“Use speakers with an impedance of 4 – 16 Ω/ohms. When connecting speakers with different impedances, set the impedance based on the speaker with the lowest impedance.”

Before connecting speakers CINEMA 60

manuals.marantz.com