4k Upgrade: Bypass Receiver with HTPC for streaming?

[BullBuchanan]

I've been powering my livingroom off of a laptop into a SC-25 to a Samsung 1080p TV for the last 6 years, and it's been a great solution for me. I run all streaming solutions off of the TV including music and movies, with an external HDD powering Kodi. Unfortunately, this week a lightning storm determined that it was time to upgrade my system.

Can I live in a 4K/HDR world without the use of a receiver and send a minipc out to a DAC and subsequent amp with the picture out the TV and have support of modern formats? The first thing that comes to mind is that the audio and video likely have to travel together on the HDMI path, so would I be forced to have some sort of processor in order to strip out the sound, or would I be limited to some downmixed solution where the minipc outputs analog to the amp?

The second thing I'm wondering is if anyone has experienced with PC based 4k streaming and if web versions of amazon/netflix/hulu etc are going to give me reduced quality/formats vs a closed system.

I would probably also be looking to get a UHD bluray to run through the pc as well, so if anyone can speak to that compatibility, I'd much appreciate it.

 

[abdo123]

Is there a particular reason not to use a receiver?

 

[BullBuchanan]

Is there a particular reason not to use a receiver?

It comes down to money and efficiency. Since I want to power my speakers with a Hypex NCore amp, I have to get a receiver that at least has a pre-amp out. That moves me up several tiers. If I want one that may be slightly future proof in terms of formats, again, I'm probably looking at least at $1000. What am I getting for that $1000? I'm getting a box that passes my signal to my TV and to an amp. That doesn't seem like very much value, and I'm a person who lives by value in audio and video. I usually try to get the best value products from 2-4 years ago, so it allows me to buy better quality stuff than my budget would otherwise afford.

If I know that 100% of my content will be watched on a PC, using a TV as a monitor, an AVR exists as a necessary evil providing no independent value of its own and something that I constantly have to upgrade in order to allow the connection from my pc to my TV and my pc to my speakers to work as I want it to. Also, the receiver can only degrade the quality of my audio and video by getting in the way without serving a purpose. The poor SINAD of receivers is something I'd like to avoid.

 

[abdo123]

Well I know Netflix supports Dolby Atmos via its Windows app and that downloading Dolby Access will allow you to setup an 'Atmos device' and proper Atmos decoding.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/dolby-access/9n0866fs04w8?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

However, for DTS and bluray legacy formats you might need a device with actual licensing rights. I'm not sure.

 

[BullBuchanan]

Well I know Netflix supports Dolby Atmos via its Windows app and that downloading Dolby Access will allow you to setup an 'Atmos device' and proper Atmos decoding.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/dolby-access/9n0866fs04w8?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

However, for DTS and bluray legacy formats you might need a device with actual licensing rights. I'm not sure.

I won't ever have an Atmos setup, so that's not a huge concern. I'm mostly focused on if I can get multichannel audio from a 4k video stream out to an amplifier + sub in a way that is higher fidelity and lower cost than a receiver.

 

[abdo123]

I won't ever have an Atmos setup, so that's not a huge concern. I'm mostly focused on if I can get multichannel audio from a 4k video stream out to an amplifier + sub in a way that is higher fidelity and lower cost than a receiver.

almost every new release is in Atmos (or no digital encoding at all). DTS is completely outdated right now.

all of the Marvel cinematic universe on Disney+ is in Dolby Vision (12 bit) and Dolby Atmos, even the old movies.

if you want something '6 years into the future' well atmos (object based audio) is the present and the future.

 

[BullBuchanan]

almost every new release is in Atmos (or no digital encoding at all). DTS is completely outdated right now.

all of the Marvel cinematic universe on Disney+ is in Dolby Vision (12 bit) and Dolby Atmos, even the old movies.

if you want something '6 years into the future' well atmos (object based audio) is the present and the future.

Interesting, I'll have to look into that more. Typically, I think there are still LPCM audio streams available for devices that don't support newer formats - at least that was my experience watching 5.1 content when I didn't have a receiver capable of DTSHD or TueHD.

That said, I recently decided to "downgrade" my existing 5.1 system to a better quality 2.1, so surround formats aren't really a huge concern. Having access to LFE is a nice to have though as I know you do tend to get extra information that wouldn't otherwise be present in 2.0.

 

[BullBuchanan]

Maybe I should go a different route to my question. If I were to send everything to the TV from the HTPC and them run optical out to a DAC, would the TV do a D->A and then an A->D to send the audio out to the DAC or would I be able to get pure digital all the way through the chain bac out to a multichannel DAC in the highest possible quality? Or would this just be making the TV do audio processing work it's not at all well equipped to do?

 

[abdo123]

I don't think you fully get how object based audio (Atmos) works. the track is not divided into channels but rather into objects. it supports up to 32 objects, which can all be assigned to a channel (theoretically).

it's the decoder's job to represent these 32 objects into the available channels in your setup. you can enjoy dolby atmos on stereo, 5.1, 7.1 or even 32.1 using the same track and data.

it really is the future of home audio, so dolby atmos decoding should be without a doubt a priority for you.

 

[abdo123]

Oh i just noticed that you have a 2.1 setup. Well that makes things a shit ton easier as all TVs have optical out.

You can use that with a MiniDSP device to generate an LFE.

 

[BullBuchanan]

I don't think you fully get how object based audio (Atmos) works. the track is not divided into channels but rather into objects. it supports up to 32 objects, which can all be assigned to a channel (theoretically).

it's the decoder's job to represent these 32 objects into the available channels in your setup. you can enjoy dolby atmos on stereo, 5.1, 7.1 or even 32.1 using the same track and data.

it really is the future of home audio, so dolby atmos decoding should be without a doubt a priority for you.

You're right. I have next to no idea how atmos works, just that I've seen it associated with whose goofy klipsch height channels and in ceiling stuff that has seemed to be a gimmick to me for home use. From reading the dolby docs, it looks like it's actually embedded inside their other formats like TrueHD, so I can still get a True HD signal and just lose the atmos part if my device can't support that. Though, optical doesn't support TrueHD, so have to live with compressed Dolby Digitalunder this scenario.

Regarding Minidsp, I've looked at those for awhile but from following discussion around here, it seems that there are some pretty significant tradeoffs with them in that they do a digital to analog to digital conversion in their process and they use subpar electronics inside.

 

[NirreFirre]

I may not have the perfect, or even a good, answer to any of your questions but having run a 4.1 HTPC with similar value/no-big-expensive-soon-outdated-reciever in the family room I think your approach to this is excellent.

You can do a lot in current software, given that the sources are good and your choice of client (browser or native app) accept them, I would look into a flexible (could mean complex but doesn't have to) toolbox. Atmos decoding is probably never being put into a, commercial or otherwise, software though so I would say that will be your "key deciding point". 5.1 LPCM via hdmi seems to be both our "good enough" so I'd try to make everything work with that.

So, in my caee. We use 3-4 streaming services, the JRiver MC software (mostly for our ripped BDs and CDs) and a Nintendo Switch as our sources (a PS3 for a while for BDs, no TV since 2001).

Picture: Hdmi -> projector.
Audio: Asus sound card outputs 4.0 on the analog outputs and simultaneously the front channels as LPCM on the digital ones (don't try this on Win10, drivers went down so a lot of registry hacks+inofficial drivers are needed). The fronts stays in the digital domain by a MiniDSP 2x4 kit and a miniDigi connected together and that is then dsp'd and routed to some nice bridged class D Anaview AMS1000 modules + 2 subs. The analog backchannels go to a 6ch Rotel for 6 surrounds. The Switch is sadly only 2.0 into the miniDigi.

PS
My requirements are not as high as yours since the acoustics, shared space and need for a "sleeper system" that is "invisible" already limits me. But perhaps you have a few ideas in my setup. That will be getting a Dirac Studio license down the line, and more stable PC audio hardware if I can work out how to get the Switch audio into the PC and back out DSPed.

BTW. Only the fronts and projector are visible (and the electric screen when in use). Happy wife, happy life.