3e Audio TPA3251 TPA3255 Finished Amplifier with PFFB is coming!

[harkpabst]

Also BTL not PBTL ... I think @harkpabst refers to the TPA3251.
I think the PBTL 3251 is the interesting one for me to see if, as according to 3e the 3251 is better.

Yep, a typo on my part. Sorry.

Also, if my pre-amp doesn't have XLR outputs there's no advantage in XLR inputs. It's just a matter of higher costs for the adapters or cables. I've been thinking about the Audiophonics offer in the past, but the A5 makes just a lot more sense in my personal use case.

 

[Franzois]

Hello,
Just a quick performance question.
Were you able to improve the THD behaviour vs frequency as, for me, it is the major problem of the TI chips:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...er-4-ohm-vs-frequency-measurement-png.293706/

Thanks!

 

[harkpabst]

Were you able to improve the THD behaviour vs frequency as, for me, it is the major problem of the TI chips:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...er-4-ohm-vs-frequency-measurement-png.293706/

What further improvement do you expect? Due to the nature of this chip there will always be a rise of distortion with rising frequency, the question is just by how much.

You had linked to the measurement of the Fosi V3 (stereo) amp. Even up to 1 kHz the distortion is worse than -90 dB (which isn't all that bad after all):

Compare that to the Fosi V3 Mono (with PFFB). Quite a bit better up to 10 kHz, but worse at 15 kHz:

Now on to the current 3e Audio 260-2-29A stereo module (with PFFB). Look at the massive advantage for the higher frequencies, 5 kHz, 10 kHz and 15 kHz!

I'm sure that the A5/A7 series won't do any worse.

The scaling of the x axis (power) isn't identical, but the y axis (THD+N) is directly comparable. None of the other chip amp designs does better. Yes, there are amplifier designs with less frequency dependency of THD+N, but not at this price. And not at twice this price. And no, not even at three times the price. After all, what is the first harmonic distortion product k2 of a 10 kHz tone? Yes, that's 20 kHz already. And k2 of a 15 kHz tone is 30 kHz ...

 

[howard416]

Yep, a typo on my part. Sorry.

Also, if my pre-amp doesn't have XLR outputs there's no advantage in XLR inputs. It's just a matter of higher costs for the adapters or cables. I've been thinking about the Audiophonics offer in the past, but the A5 makes just a lot more sense in my personal use case.

You can still use XLR inputs with RCA outputs, with some added benefit in noise & hum compared with RCA-to-RCA. The adapter cable just needs to be made a certain way.

The reverse, as I understand, is not quite as true.

 

[harkpabst]

You can still use XLR inputs with RCA outputs, with some added benefit in noise & hum compared with RCA-to-RCA. The adapter cable just needs to be made a certain way.

Why would there be any benefit regarding noise and hum? Even if I use shielded cable the braid would be connected at one end only. I can do the same with an RCA to RCA connection.

 

[xschop]

And no, not even at three times the price

My Intuition is in agreement, so this unit will be getting the full-monty.

 

[Kagemusha]

Guys, there's already a proper implementation available with a fully integrated power supply. For those who are feeling impatient...

AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S2503E Power Amplifier 3E AUDIO 260-2-29A PFFB

The Audiophonics AP300-S2503E is a stereo power amplifier featuring a 3e Audio PFFB amplifier module. This enables it to develop 2x250W of power under 4Ω while delivering exceptional sound quality, combining precision and dynamics.

www.audiophonics.fr

might be nice but pretty expensive, costs more than my hypex amp that has xlr as well.

 

[Franzois]

What further improvement do you expect? Due to the nature of this chip there will always be a rise of distortion with rising frequency, the question is just by how much.

You had linked to the measurement of the Fosi V3 (stereo) amp. Even up to 1 kHz the distortion is worse than -90 dB (which isn't all that bad after all):

View attachment 407822


Compare that to the Fosi V3 Mono (with PFFB). Quite a bit better up to 10 kHz, but worse at 15 kHz:

View attachment 407823


Now on to the current 3e Audio 260-2-29A stereo module (with PFFB). Look at the massive advantage for the higher frequencies, 5 kHz, 10 kHz and 15 kHz!

View attachment 407824

I'm sure that the A5/A7 series won't do any worse.

The scaling of the x axis (power) isn't identical, but the y axis (THD+N) is directly comparable. None of the other chip amp designs does better. Yes, there are amplifier designs with less frequency dependency of THD+N, but not at this price. And not at twice this price. And no, not even at three times the price. After all, what is the first harmonic distortion product k2 of a 10 kHz tone? Yes, that's 20 kHz already. And k2 of a 15 kHz tone is 30 kHz ...

I thought I asked 3e audio, my bad...

Anyway, my question is indeed whether 3e audio is able in their new amps to achieve similar (or better) performance than in their previous amp. To my taste, the distortion of the Fosi stereo amp around 5kHz (the sweet spot of hearing) comes fairly close to audible levels.

 

[SMen]

I thought I asked 3e audio, my bad...

Anyway, my question is indeed whether 3e audio is able in their new amps to achieve similar (or better) performance than in their previous amp. To my taste, the distortion of the Fosi stereo amp around 5kHz (the sweet spot of hearing) comes fairly close to audible levels.

If you use the @ symbol in front of '3eaudio' in your message, they will be alerted to your question (I think/understand).

 

[somebodyelse]

Why would there be any benefit regarding noise and hum? Even if I use shielded cable the braid would be connected at one end only. I can do the same with an RCA to RCA connection.

See Whitlock's explanation in Jensen Transformers' AN007 for the details. The correctly wired cable uses a twisted pair for the signal, and shield to connect the grounds. The 'cold' in the pair and the shield both connect to the RCA shield. Any ground current from psu leakage, ground loops etc. flows in the shield not the signal cold, reducing ground related noise levels in the signal relative to single ended. And despite the impedance mismatch between hot and cold, you still get some CMRR which you wouldn't get with single ended.

 

[harkpabst]

See Whitlock's explanation in Jensen Transformers' AN007 for the details. The correctly wired cable uses a twisted pair for the signal, and shield to connect the grounds. The 'cold' in the pair and the shield both connect to the RCA shield. Any ground current from psu leakage, ground loops etc. flows in the shield not the signal cold, reducing ground related noise levels in the signal relative to single ended. And despite the impedance mismatch between hot and cold, you still get some CMRR which you wouldn't get with single ended.

Admittedly, I don't understand the wiring scheme from that description (and I have nagging doubts regarding cable capacitance), but I will give that great resource a read and report back what I have learned.

 

[Guddu]

Thread '3e Audio A7 - TPA3255 Stereo Amplifier Advanced PFFB -First Look'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...reo-amplifier-advanced-pffb-first-look.58692/

 

[Defo]

Any news on the pricing yet?

 

[3eaudio]

share a review from @indiecoffeezip

 

[Inertiaman]

Its essentially just video footage of an amplifier playing various tracks. Preceded by a disclaimer noting that they receive commission on sales. Calling that a review is generous to say the least.

Sorry to be harsh, but garbage like this isn't helping your credibility.

 

[SMen]

Yes, hopefully we are getting closer to the time for measurements, and the pricing.
This new model by 3e has a chance to also get reviewed next to the Fosi's and Aiyima's on the 'consumer channels' - which is an opportunity for 3e ... with patience to forget about 'non-review-reviews'.

 

[Tofffsy]

@3eaudio you wrote that the TPA3251 is superior to TPA3255 but TPA3251 is less powerful and produces more heat. So I gues that if I don't need as much power it's better to choose the A5 stereo amplifier versus two mono A7? On the board you published you rate them 5 stars for the sound quality, is the A5 superior? Soundstage wise wich would be the best amplifier by example? I have another question, do the A7 mono need each one two opamps? And is there also two opamps in the setero A5? Thanks a lot.

 

[yo!]

I would always vote for the most stable and most powerful configuration.

It's practically not possible to encounter a audible difference between SNR -85 or SNR -95 or whatever the outcome is. This simply is what it is. And you won't hear the differ from 0.001 or 0.5 thd.

But you CLEARLY hear without a doubt the rising THD wenn power is insufficient or when you encounter power loss in low impedance regions. Many speakers has 3.x ohm minima somewhere or worse, and Class D has no headroom.

 

[masterhw]

Worth resurfacing this 3251 vs 3255 comparison

• xx51 has slightly lower THD than xx55 up to around 5 watts
• 5 watts to 100 the chips perform similarly
• above 100 watts the xx51 starts to break up, the xx55 goes to over 200W before also breaking up

if you don't see yourself pushing serious power (either for high volume or insensitive speakers), I would choose xx51 for providing slightly better performance for most typical listening ranges. I concede the point that both amplifiers are well in to inaudible THD range, so the real world difference is negligible. Still, the engineer within me would be happier knowing I have the more optimal chip for my use case.

 

[amarsicola]

the physician within me agrees wit @yo! , you will hear double power (maybe just in a party night) while you will never hear a 3db sinad difference. You make your choice.