3e Audio A7 vs Hypex NC252MP; is the 600€ diff worth it?

[Burrito13]

Here's my situation. I've build some DIY towers similar to the TriTrix towers, but using some old Madisound 5102R 8 ohm speakers run in parallel for a "supposed" 4 amp load. (old spec sheet included) Problem is that every time I hook them up to my Wiim amp, one of the channel protection circuits trips and I lose a channel. This happens only when I'm playing some lower frequency audio and only with the HDMI input, but that's another road.

I'm looking to get rid of the Wimm amp and go with a Wiim Ultra as the integration/streamer module and am looking for an amp that I will be pretty much assured will handle the loads I'm giving it. I was trying to get accustomed to spending the 1000€ on an Apollon Audio implementation of the Hypex NC252MP amp because they show the 2 ohm specs so I felt it would be fine with my speakers. Now I've seen reviews and talk about the 3e A7 amp being able to handle 2 ohms, and it's about 600€ less, so now I'm torn. Do I fork out the extra 600€ for assurance, or go with the 3e? The difference in the SNR is not so much of a concern to me, just don't want to have an amp that can't handle the load.

 

[nerdstrike]

The A7's party trick is basically oodles of power into any impedance, but it appears to be single channel. The Apollon I found had two channels, so perhaps the price difference is not so large?

 

[Burrito13]

There are A7 mono amps, but the one I was specifically looking into is stereo

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/integrated-amplifiers/3e-audio-a7-p-20372.html

 

[Roland68]

There are A7 mono amps, but the one I was specifically looking into is stereo

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/integrated-amplifiers/3e-audio-a7-p-20372.html

I would definitely go for the 3E A7. So far, I've only heard two NC252MP-based amplifiers, but I definitely didn't find them any better than TPA325x-based amplifiers from 3E Audio, Topping, Sylph, or XRK Audio. Then there's the price difference.

Three other points are the good load stability of the TPA325x PFFB amplifiers, their very low failure rate, and their separate and independent power supply.

 

[R.J.]

I would definitely go for the 3E A7. So far, I've only heard two NC252MP-based amplifiers, but I definitely didn't find them any better than TPA325x-based amplifiers from 3E Audio, Topping, Sylph, or XRK Audio. Then there's the price difference.

What exactly did you find better with the TPA325x based amps? I am pretty confident that you would not hear any difference to the NC252MP amp. I own a NC252MP based amp and I could not hear any difference to my former Onkyo TXNR509 AVR except the higher output capability of the NC252MP.

Three other points are the good load stability of the TPA325x PFFB amplifiers, their very low failure rate, and their separate and independent power supply.

How do you know that TPA based amps have a very low failure rate? Do you have any data for that?

 

[Roland68]

What exactly did you find better with the TPA325x based amps? I am pretty confident that you would not hear any difference to the NC252MP amp. I own a NC252MP based amp and I could not hear any difference to my former Onkyo TXNR509 AVR except the higher output capability of the NC252MP.

How do you know that TPA based amps have a very low failure rate? Do you have any data for that?

Please read what I wrote and don't put words in my mouth; that's rude.
I wrote that I definitely didn't find the two NC252MP-based amplifiers I've heard so far better than TPA325x-based amplifiers from 3E Audio, Topping, Sylph, or XRK Audio. That's my experience, nothing more, nothing less. And if I hear a difference, then that's the way it is; it doesn't have to concern anyone.

The measurements from Onkyo AV receivers (and others) aren't exactly great, and when measured for ASR, they were in a very low range. The NC252MP's measured values are significantly higher, and I find it strange that there was no audible difference. Of course, it could be due to other factors. But that's just my personal opinion.

The TPA325x PFFBs mentioned are also slightly better than the NC252MP-based devices, at least according to ASR tests. The lower price is another factor.

My experience is based on my own TPA325x amplifiers, about 50 of which consist of self-assembled circuit boards, evaluation boards, DIY devices, and some from the companies listed. Despite really horrific tests, loose wiring, testing without an ESD workstation, etc., I haven't been able to destroy one yet. In addition, I have well over 200 devices among my friends and acquaintances, sometimes eight in active projects. I'm not aware of any failures there either.
Other users may have different experiences.

 

[Guddu]

Here's my situation. I've build some DIY towers similar to the TriTrix towers, but using some old Madisound 5102R 8 ohm speakers run in parallel for a "supposed" 4 amp load. (old spec sheet included) Problem is that every time I hook them up to my Wiim amp, one of the channel protection circuits trips and I lose a channel. This happens only when I'm playing some lower frequency audio and only with the HDMI input, but that's another road.
View attachment 452675
I'm looking to get rid of the Wimm amp and go with a Wiim Ultra as the integration/streamer module and am looking for an amp that I will be pretty much assured will handle the loads I'm giving it. I was trying to get accustomed to spending the 1000€ on an Apollon Audio implementation of the Hypex NC252MP amp because they show the 2 ohm specs so I felt it would be fine with my speakers. Now I've seen reviews and talk about the 3e A7 amp being able to handle 2 ohms, and it's about 600€ less, so now I'm torn. Do I fork out the extra 600€ for assurance, or go with the 3e? The difference in the SNR is not so much of a concern to me, just don't want to have an amp that can't handle the load.

None of those are bad choices but I would pick 3e A7 seeing the price difference.

 

[harkpabst]

@Burrito13, the Hypex NC252MP amplifier modules are spaced for loads down to 2 ohms, but the output power is way lower than into 4 ohms. They cannot keep up the voltage, either because of the built-in power supply or a too high output impedance of the amp.

This is obviously not ideal in your case, you need something that's rock solid into 2 ohms load. The 3e Audio A7 and (with a little less power) A5 can do just that. A much better choice for your speakers, if you ask me.

The data sheet is a little hard to read, but if Rscc (or Rsco?) is meant to define the DC resistance, then whoever decided to sell this as an 8 Ω speaker should be severely punished. You need a very beefy amp for two if these wired in parallel.

If you could wait a little longer, the upcoming WiiM Amp Ultra could be another option. It more or less consists of a WiiM Ultra and WiiM Vibelink Amp in a single case (with some features like the phono in and headphone out removed). But WiiM claim that it will use "dual TPA3255" chips, like the 3e Audio A7. This would be different from the Vibelink Amp.

I explicitly asked WiiM about this surprising difference and they explicitly confirmed it. However, the WiiM Amp Ultra will probably not hit the streets before August or September ...

 

[boXem]

They cannot keep up the voltage, either because of the built-in power supply or a too high output impedance of the amp.

PS outputs more than 500W. Output impedance is below 0.005 R.
Maybe they can keep up with voltage and it's something else? Like over current protection as indicated in the spec maybe.

That said, you are right, the A7 behaves better than the NC252MP with low impedance loads, although it's HF IMD is not in the same league.

 

[harkpabst]

PS outputs more than 500W. Output impedance is below 0.005 R.
Maybe they can keep up with voltage and it's something else? Like over current protection as indicated in the spec maybe.

NC252MP is an integrated amplifier and PSU module, if I got that right, so the root cause doesn't really matter that much, as the result is the same: It's not well suited for very low loads.

That said, you are right, the A7 behaves better than the NC252MP with low impedance loads, although it's HF IMD is not in the same league.

I cannot comment on your products. When comparing Amir's measurements of the Buckeye NC252MP and the 3e Audio A7 I wouldn't exactly call the difference a different league. In fact, the A7 seems to perform better regarding IMD up to ~8 kHz.

 

[Chaos01]

Hi, imho the price difference is not Worth it, Just If you want a more high end Beauty casework. Apollons Hypex 252 is on the expensive Side but they have beautiful cases. You find much Cheaper 252 Implementations at Audiophonics for ~475€, but the 3e A7 is still more Budget friendly.
If you spend more at Apollon for the Hypex NCX at ~1300€ with shipping and vat, then the Higher costs are imho still Worth it, more Power you ever will need and lower distortion at 5khz Up to 15 kHz. The Purifi 1ET6525SA would be also great.
But i guess for Most people in most cases the 3e A7 has plenty enough Power and for the price, distortion is very low and a good choice, you cant do much wrong with it.

 

[vinodk69]

Wondering if I should try my 3e audio A7 stereo amp using MF M6spre preamp to run Philharmonic BMR monitors or order Hypex NCx252 stereo amp to run them.

 

[harkpabst]

Wondering if I should try my 3e audio A7 stereo amp using MF M6spre preamp to run Philharmonic BMR monitors or order Hypex NCx252 stereo amp to run them.

You're wondering if you should buy a new pre-amp (don't you have one currently?) or replace the power amp instead (how will you control the volume)?

I'm confused. What has one to do with the other? Do you have some money to burn and just want to upgrade anything? What is it that you're missing with your current setup?

 

[vinodk69]

I have the MF preamp & 3e audio A7 amp. Contemplating weather just try the 3e audio amp or purchase Ncx252 amp to run PA BMR monitors. Wondering if anyone has tried PA BMR monitors with the 3e audio amp and would it drive the speakers to their full potential with low distortion.

 

[Mort]

Yes I have. Both are fine.

 

[Roland68]

Wondering if I should try my 3e audio A7 stereo amp using MF M6spre preamp to run Philharmonic BMR monitors or order Hypex NCx252 stereo amp to run them.

I would also go for the A7, but use it without the preamplifier—it degrades the A7's excellent noise performance and drags it down.

 

[Matias]

There is the new and better NCx252MP but the price should be even higher.

Considering Audiophonics NC252MP x 3e audio A7 reviews:
- NC252MP has much more PS harmonics garbage leak into the audio band, while the A7 avoids it by having the PS brick outside the amp.
- The 2 ohms reactive load test went into protection in NC252MP and not into the A7.
- High frequency noise and distortion is lower on the NC252MP but it seems that the TI chip feedback loop is more relaxed in that area on purpose, since music signal is lower than mids and lows, and hearing sensitivity is also less.
- Power into 4 ohms is similar.

Technically alone I would give the edge to the 3e A7 amp, and more so when considering the price difference.

 

[vinodk69]

Unfortunately I have more than one source therefore I have to use preamp with the 3e A7 amp. Hopefully the performance does not get degraded. MF M6spre is a fully balanced class A preamp.

 

[dguillor]

I much prefer internal power supplies. I don’t understand why they are not more available.

 

[Roland68]

Unfortunately I have more than one source therefore I have to use preamp with the 3e A7 amp. Hopefully the performance does not get degraded. MF M6spre is a fully balanced class A preamp.

Please don't take this the wrong way—I know it sounds harsh—but it makes absolutely no difference whether your preamplifier operates in Class A or not.
The A7 features its own dedicated preamplifier section utilizing op-amps, and it generates significantly less noise than your current preamplifier.
You could simply use a passive switcher, which, in my experience, is the superior approach.

An even simpler and better solution is to place a high-quality DAC (approx. €300) upstream of the A7, connecting your analog turntable/phono preamp to it via Toslink using a good ADC—such as the one from MiniDSP, available for under €100. This setup also effectively eliminates grounding issues and audible noise.
Even people with analog equipment in the 1-2 digit K range were surprised that it was not worse, but often better than the purely analog path.

Times change, after all; the MF M6spre introduces a multitude of additional components into the analog signal path, along with several decibels of added noise.
The manufacturer specifies a THD of 0.004% and 0.005%, which corresponds to approximately -88 dB and -86 dB, respectively. Furthermore, the specified signal-to-noise ratio is >96 dB (A-weighted). The manufacturer provides no further information, and most test reports skillfully and verbosely avoid the topic of measured values.

Just compare those figures with the measurements for the A7. Your BMR monitors deserve better.