3e audio A7/A7 Mono Amplifier Review

[amirm]

Amirm: I suggest you contact either ELNA, MOUSER, DIGIKEY, FARNELL, TOPPING, or SMSL (your choice) to ask them this question

I don't need to do anything. You have to do your homework to prove the caps are fake. I ask again, are you confident that it is impossible to source these caps? And don't tell me about mouser or digikey as these companies don't source from them.

 

[capslock]

Apologies for not being clear, I was talking about the 3e not the Hypex. To the UK 3e is £344 delivered from Audiophonics and I paid £221 delivered from Ali, so 36% less.
They are £274 now on Ali, so price has gone up there since I bought mine. Plus, I was just lucky not to get charged any tax, but if you were charged tax, there isn't that much difference, making Audiphonics likely the best current source (warranty, return shipping if needed etc).

I think the point stands though, you can pick up Hypex (more proven design, been around a good while) for not much more money vs the 3e at current pricing.
I just got lucky on the early bird 3e pricing.

Yes, there was an introductory price that was lower. I'm not sure how it goes for the UK, but for the EU, it is possible for the shipper to prepay the VAT. So all prices listed on Aliexpress already contain 19 - 22% VAT, depending on the customer's country of residence. Import duties, if any, will only be charged from € 150, but AE throws out the baby with the bathwater by dicounting the VAT on all goods > € 150. This means the recipient has to pay the parcel service for the import VAT + a brokerage fee which is fortunately typically < € 10 these days.

The $800 de mimimis exception for the US is being scrapped, but in keeping with the ham-fisted approach to everything, they opted for a blanket fee of $100 increasing to $200 in June. This should kill most Temo, Shein and Aliexpress purchases:

Shein and Temu Will be Hit by Trump’s China Tariffs. Americans Are Worried.

The Trump administration’s plan to add steep fees to packages from China will deal a blow to Temu, Shein and some TikTok Shop sellers, worrying American consumers.

www.nytimes.com

 

[daniboun]

Yes, there was an introductory price that was lower. I'm not sure how it goes for the UK, but for the EU, it is possible for the shipper to prepay the VAT. So all prices listed on Aliexpress already contain 19 - 22% VAT, depending on the customer's country of residence. Import duties, if any, will only be charged from € 150, but AE throws out the baby with the bathwater by dicounting the VAT on all goods > € 150. This means the recipient has to pay the parcel service for the import VAT + a brokerage fee which is fortunately typically < € 10 these days.

The $800 de mimimis exception for the US is being scrapped, but in keeping with the ham-fisted approach to everything, they opted for a blanket fee of $100 increasing to $200 in June. This should kill most Temo, Shein and Aliexpress purchases:

Shein and Temu Will be Hit by Trump’s China Tariffs. Americans Are Worried.

The Trump administration’s plan to add steep fees to packages from China will deal a blow to Temu, Shein and some TikTok Shop sellers, worrying American consumers.

www.nytimes.com

In France, we call this tax racket. Macron has been imposing taxes on Chinese imports for a while now, starting from the first euro spent. What do you think Trump is doing? Exactly the same shit as the Europeans, supposedly to protect themselves from the Chinese threat, lol... Where are Apple or Dell products made? All these political measures are bullshit.

 

[howard416]

Well, this is the point: with clean power.

Let's say you play loud and you have some peaks around 25 volts. As long as the speaker impedance is 4 ohm everything is ok.

If you check the graph, when it goes around 2 ohm, the amplifier cannot sustain over 19v and starts clipping. And we are talking heavy clipping 200-300 watts. Maybe it goes in protection and restarts

But that is not clean power.

BTW, A5 can be stable to 22 volts. I would rather have that one.

V

My point is that, if your speakers can dip to 2 ohms, you should know that you need an amp that can handle that load at whatever SPL you want to make. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect that every amp is capable of some arbitrary output at very low speaker impedances.

 

[V.b.]

Someone was asking earlier about KEF R3. They are listed as 8 ohm, but amirm measured them going as low as 3 ohms.
There are a lot of speakers that don't get measured.

How can you know?

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Hello Amirm

I take the liberty of answering you in all sincerity and with all the respect you have owed:

I don't think it's up to me to prove that they are false (or true) since the letter from ELNA confirms it but it seems to me that it's rather up to the one who sells them to prove that they are true...

... I don't sell anything to anyone and I don't advertise.

 

[howard416]

Someone was asking earlier about KEF R3. They are listed as 8 ohm, but amirm measured them going as low as 3 ohms.
There are a lot of speakers that don't get measured.

How can you know?

Buyer beware, has always been the case. Anyway, there is no excuse when this amp has gone through the ASR measurement gamut. The only thing to be blamed is taking the risk with a speaker of unknown characteristics. But perhaps ICIETDIYEUR can do the public service of calling out loudspeaker manufacturers for misrepresenting their impedances, just like he does 3e Audio for… things.

If it makes you feel any better, it’s not like anyone goes out of their way to play loud sine waves at the speaker impedance minima (bassheads should know better). Music is broad spectrum.

 

[JSmith]

the bass plasticky

Well that is as clear as mud.

@3eaudio, what's the issue with your website? Has been like this for circa 12 hours;

509
Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to bandwidth limit has been reached for this site. Please try again later.

JSmith

 

[amirm]

I don't think it's up to me to prove that they are false (or true) since the letter from ELNA confirms it but it seems to me that it's rather up to the one who sells them to prove that they are true...

No, that doesn't prove anything. People are selling tube amps where tubes haven't been manufactured for decades. If you are going to make serious allegations of someone using fake parts, then you have to do your homework to prove that. Anyone making the claims you are making and as repeatedly so, by now would have bought an amp, take out the caps and demonstrate their fakeness. Instead, you keep suggesting I and others should go do this kind of homework for you. This is not how things work.

 

[JSmith]

up to the one who sells them to prove

Sure, if they have a case to answer... but at this stage it's just some random accusation without any evidence. Someone needs to order one, open it up and check the date codes on the caps. The most likely scenario here is NOS and not sinister.


JSmith

 

[wwenze]

Burden of proof always gets confused in this industry...

 

[Alannn]

Someone was asking earlier about KEF R3. They are listed as 8 ohm, but amirm measured them going as low as 3 ohms.
There are a lot of speakers that don't get measured.

How can you know?

In addition to some speaker manufacturers lying about impedance, keep in mind stated impedance is "nominal" which is expected to be higher than the measured minimum. The reality is these numbers lack a big portion of meaning when corresponding phase angle is ignored.

 

[daniboun]

Sure, if they have a case to answer... but at this stage it's just some random accusation without any evidence. Someone needs to order one, open it up and check the date codes on the caps. The most likely scenario here is NOS and not sinister.


JSmith

@amirm : is that possible to check this since you own the A7 and A5 ?

 

[capslock]

In France, we call this tax racket. Macron has been imposing taxes on Chinese imports for a while now, starting from the first euro spent. What do you think Trump is doing? Exactly the same shit as the Europeans, supposedly to protect themselves from the Chinese threat, lol... Where are Apple or Dell products made? All these political measures are bullshit.

Actually, blame Ursula, not Emmanuel. This is a EU policy. Before that, the German tax office wouldn't charge VAT if the VAT amount was below € 5, which meant that shipments up to € 26 were free (I remember the de minimis was even higher before but don't remember the cutoff). Then they changed it to € 1 about two years ago for EU wide harmonization. We may not like it as diy'ers but it is only fair. Just think of the $ 20 billion of sales Temu makes in the US alone. That is serious competition to retailers who pay porperty, payroll and sales taxes (and a large percentage of stuff from Temu is of dubious chemical safety according to testing by public TV in Germany).

I also think the fact that the EU allows sellers to prepay VAT through a portal is neat and fair. Recently, I had a book from the UK that the seller didn't declare as a book and that I had to pay € 1.20 in VAT and € 6 outlay / brokerage for. I much prefer that Aliexpress comes VAT paid. They seem to pay VAT in bulk at the point of import rather than through the portal because the stuff arrives relabeled with a return address near Rotterdam, Bremen or Frankfurt and through commercial carriers such as Hermes, FedEx more so than DHL (which is a subsidiary of Deutsche Post), so it seems they renegotiated the postal agreement that had the postal service deliver parcels from China for nearly free. This is much fairer than the flat $100 (and $200 from June) charge the American adminstration will be charging. They also require sellers to register witht the Geman system for electronic waste recycling. Annoyingly, this means that I cannot buy some sellers because they figured their sales are not large enough to warrant the fees. E1DA is unavailable through Ali, just through resellers or direct, which means I have to pay about € 10 FedEx brokerage fee.

Strangely, while Ali sales to Europe are about 20% more expensive than to the US, Hifigo and Linsoul have identical prices. I am not sure if they have huge margins to eat the VAT or they found a way to underdeclare their bulk shipments.

 

[3eaudio]

@daniboun i am supprise you stay away form us this time.
i can officially confirm that the ELNA cap is genuine part,anyone has our product(AMP module or finished amp) can verify it.
EOL not means not able to buy it immediately, they still can be ordered for some distributor untill they finally cut the line due to makerting demand or materials fulfillment.
if we can easily buy/use the fake parts,do you think some other bigger/smaller brand expecially sell in lower price won't do that?no matter RFS or FG,etc.

 

[3eaudio]

Ultimately it's a response to the Topping PA7 tested in 2023... so nothing revolutionary here

back to the topic
@daniboun
please show me other brand can optimized this,i can also share here TPA32xx can be implemented as a compisite amp which bring performance to next level, let's see who will make it out.

 

[pma]

@3eaudio : you definitely got impressive performance from TPA3255. May I have 2 questions :
- do you have output impedance vs. frequency measurement,
- do you use composite feedback with another device like op-amp.
Thank you.

 

[capslock]

Hello Lester

Thank you for your very specific comments

Don't you find it surprising, however, that companies like TOPPING and SMSL don't use these excellent capacitors in their devices, but rather references that remain available from NICHICON ?

Although I should point out that electrochemical capacitors used in audio connections (connected in series) cannot function properly since there is no potential difference that allows electrolysis to work (at least 2 to 3 V between the terminals are required for ionization).

Only polypropylene (film) capacitors are capable of this, and the only reference with this 10µF value is the MKS2 from WIMA (Germany), rated at 50V.

It is small enough to be installed on this type of PCB, but it is 'rather expensive'


View attachment 444624


I simply wanted to clarify that my comments are in line with the technical and functional interest of the devices that can be offered for sale, therefore necessarily efficient and qualitative

I used to suffer from audiophile paranoia about electrolytic couplings caps, too, until I learned it is about the load impedance. If you stay far from the corner frequency, you are fine. Hell, Ivan (IVX) uses them as coupling caps for his Cosmos ADC and Scaler. How can you argue with -145 dB distortions?

On a side note, MKS are not prime choice for lowest distortion, MKP are, but they are rather big if you need several µF which makes them prone to EMI pickup which will render performance worse. Contrary to conventional wisdom, CoG/NPO ceramic caps are even better than MKP but availeable only up to maybe 10 nF.

 

[pma]

are fine. Hell, Ivan (IVX) uses them as coupling caps for his Cosmos ADC

And hell (unfortunately), distortion rises below 100Hz and if you try to measure SOTA preamps and amps with -120dB distortion, you are limited and you measure ADC error low frequency distortion. It is worse as range selector goes to higher sensitivity. Worst at 2.7V, better at 10V. For this reason I sometimes show thd/frequency plots from 100Hz.

 

[capslock]

And hell (unfortunately), distortion rises below 100Hz and if you try to measure SOTA preamps and amps with -120dB distortion, you are limited and you measure ADC error low frequency distortion. It is worse as range selector goes to higher sensitivity. Worst at 2.7V, better at 10V. For this reason I sometimes show thd/frequency plots from 100Hz.

Yeah, I thought about that as soon as I had posted. Maybe we should embark on a project to recap a Cosmos ADC(iso)? But it is largely academic in that - 120 dB below 100 Hz is most certainly inaudible and there is no bass speaker on earth (even with MFB) that can play at -120 dB.