3e audio A7/A7 Mono Amplifier Review

[antcollinet]

Bait and switch only applies to retailers that offer an item on sale/at a low price (and the retailer purposefully doesn't order in enough stock) only to tell the consumer when they arrive to the store that they are "out of stock", and then upsell something that is much more expensive.

Bait and switch is (IMO) any situation where one thing is promised in order to secure a sale, and a different thing is supplied.

In this case they are baiting people in with promises of "audio grade capacitors of a particular type" then switching them for something else. But regardless of terminology, it is dishonest marketing/sales, and I have a low tolerance for dishonesty.

It is why I am here at ASR.

 

[john61ct]

Bait and switch only applies to retailers that offer an item on sale/at a low price (and the retailer purposefully doesn't order in enough stock) only to tell the consumer when they arrive to the store that they are "out of stock", and then upsell something that is much more expensive.

LOL no not at all true, definitely could apply to this context as well.

But it does imply both a lower quality product and intentional fraud, neither of which we know is the case here.

 

[saberger0357]

If you can prove that there's a measurable difference that actually affects the performance of the amp, by all means...

That’s not the point.

 

[SMen]

A simple browse of the 3e audio website, and you'd have found it, that's what i did.

Account Suspended

It is important to reference. It could have been a simple anything from anywhere...
Or we lose truth etc. Too much re-discombobulation going on!

 

[Sokel]

If you worry about the "sound" of the caps, don't.
ELNA's are not about the sound, they about consistency (tight specs, usually, not much tolerance, I have measured hundreds) which helps designing.

They do have a proven record, they are reliable, etc. And it's designer's or company's job to decide if they worth the extra cost (ok, apart from DIY, cause high quality components are usually more forgiving to mistakes but NOT mistakes as putting them opposite like the other 3E PCB we saw ) .

BUT, their myth stands and companies know that and advertise their gear as having such, there's a flood of them at AlI (where I would never buy "ELNA" or "WIMA" )
Since the add is there, they should be a standard, no question about it.

Edit: Rubycons are high quality as well or even higher (when real) but that's not the point here.

 

[3eaudio]

i am not going to keep explaince but if someone don't understand and dout it, it is hard to chnage his mind.
we change these 4 cap will save how much? 0.1x4=0.4USD? why we are not change them all?why we are not remove some other the 1000uF buck cap(much high cost)
OPA1656 and OPA1612 are the same in performence and these are depend on supply visibility.

 

[antcollinet]

i am not going to keep explaince but if someone don't understand and dout it, it is hard to chnage his mind.
we change these 4 cap will save how much? 0.1x4=0.4USD? why we are not change them all?why we are not remove some other the 1000uF buck cap(much high cost)
OPA1656 and OPA1612 are the same in performence and these are depend on supply visibility.

All of which is fine, but then please remove your statement that you use Elna caps from your marketing material. Because as of now, that material is dishonest.

It works towards damaging the trust your potential customers have in your organisation.

 

[Good Vibes]

I have the A7, really like it and have been thinking of buying an A5. Glad to read from those in the know, that sound quality won’t be impacted but it is certainly bad business practice to make great claims about the quality parts used to make the amp and to then not use those parts.

 

[anonyless]

this whole capacitor discussion sounds to me like major nitpicking, that is caused by simply 3e audio not updating or clearly informing on their website,
that some amp units might have OTHER brand high quality capacitors (which are not ELNA as shown in the graphics) that perform exactly the same .
did I get this right?

 

[3eaudio]

this whole capacitor discussion sounds to me like major nitpicking, that is caused by simply 3e audio not updating or clearly informing on their website,
that some amp units might have OTHER brand high quality capacitors (which are not ELNA as shown in the graphics) that perform exactly the same .
did I get this right?

depend on people's sensitivy for new things maybe.....
like some brand writing it as 300W+300W for tpa3255 been over years in the past, but who care that today?

 

[ziggurcat]

this whole capacitor discussion sounds to me like major nitpicking

Because that's what it is.

3e could easily satiate the pedantic bloodlust by removing the manufacturer/brand of capacitor, and leave in that they use high-grade audio capacitors.

 

[SMen]

this whole capacitor discussion sounds to me like major nitpicking, that is caused by simply 3e audio not updating or clearly informing on their website,
that some amp units might have OTHER brand high quality capacitors (which are not ELNA as shown in the graphics) that perform exactly the same .
did I get this right?

I'm with you on this. The web site is very basic and has historic information on it ... 'out of date' might be the strongest criticism.

Because that's what it is.

3e could easily satiate the pedantic bloodlust by removing the manufacturer/brand of capacitor, and leave in that they use high-grade audio capacitors.

Yes. And that they continuously strive to improve their products and certainly to maintain quality.

 

[saberger0357]

Because that's what it is.

3e could easily satiate the pedantic bloodlust by removing the manufacturer/brand of capacitor, and leave in that they use high-grade audio capacitors.

False advertising is false advertising, and it's wrong. And so easy to avoid, unless for some reason somebody doesn't want to.

Change the copy, apologize for the confusion, and move on. The product is good, and messing it up for something so easily corrected is ridiculous and yes, it's bad business.

 

[Deleted member 88295]

The way I see it, 3e doesn't mind plating dirty.

It starts with sending a special model to Amir and other reviewers. Production model is gutted, ripple smoothing daughterboard is removed, pcb to terminate speaker outputs is removed, 10A relay is removed.

I do not think it is fair to keep the review up, it scores a SINAD of 102 in reality what we can buy is a 96 SINAD amp

I still can't believe when I contacted you, your reply was I was looking at the wrong place for the Simic.

You refuse to make apologies and continue with false advertising and treat us as annoying children.

 

[Ropeburn]

I had to check my unit, I have the Rubycon caps too. I know very little about that side of things but I did very much buy into the info listed by them regarding the use of the ELNA Silmic ‘highest grade audio capictors’. Can anyone enlighten me if these changes are likely to impact the measured performance of this amp?

"Audio grade" is a lot like "military grade". For some reason it got an overblown reputation, while in reality it's just bog standard stuff that meets a few basic criteria, and the exact opposite of "luxury" category. Shit needs to work adequately from -20 to 50°C, audio gear needs to transmit 20-20kHz low freq signals. Easy peasy.

 

[SnakeLord]

i am not going to keep explaince but if someone don't understand and dout it, it is hard to chnage his mind.
we change these 4 cap will save how much? 0.1x4=0.4USD? why we are not change them all?why we are not remove some other the 1000uF buck cap(much high cost)
OPA1656 and OPA1612 are the same in performence and these are depend on supply visibility.

What are we talking here about? You clearly cannot randomly and silently change essential parts of your device at will while advertising and using those as an selling point. Its actually illigal!

The least thing would have been to openly communicate about whats going on but i also could imagine that "e3" as brand had actually no idea what the OEM manufacturer/fabric is doing.

It throws a really bad light at 3e Audio. Credebility, reliability, predectebility and QC are not the strongest side of many if not most chinese brands (with some exceptions) and this is just another example.

This beheaviour also makes @amirm look bad since he has tested and promoted a product prototype which has drastically changed as a mass production model.

 

[Sokel]

It starts with sending a special model to Amir and other reviewers. Production model is gutted, ripple smoothing daughterboard is removed, pcb to terminate speaker outputs is removed, 10A relay is removed.

I do not think it is fair to keep the review up, it scores a SINAD of 102 in reality what we can buy is a 96 SINAD amp

That's not fair play, at all.
And certainly not in line with ASR ethos which some probably use as their advertisement main point.

If the above are true we're talking about a different amp.
There were perfectly ok amps in the past who got ridiculed by the material of the binding posts alone.

Someone has to send Amir a random sample probably and take it from there.

 

[Sokel]

"Audio grade" is a lot like "military grade". For some reason it got an overblown reputation, while in reality it's just bog standard stuff that meets a few basic criteria, and the exact opposite of "luxury" category. Shit needs to work adequately from -20 to 50°C, audio gear needs to transmit 20-20kHz low freq signals. Easy peasy.

Mil spec is DIY territory alone, I keep my 930 series Caddocks in my safe

 

[SnakeLord]

The product is good

Thats a statement which we now actually cannot approve anymore since the production model is not the same as by Amir tested one.
The prototype measured by Amir was good, yes! But who knows what we are dealing with now?

A retest of the production model "sponsored" from some of the official resellers but not hand picked by the company itself would be only fair and satisfying to all the customers.

 

[ziggurcat]

This is admittedly not the greatest photograph, but I took a photo of some of the caps in my own unit. The ones that are immediately next to the opamp appear to be the same Rubycon caps (they're black with silver lettering), but there's a cluster of 4 caps a little bit more inside the of the amp that are black with gold lettering. I couldn't quite get an angle on the brand marking, but I can make out "ELNA" on the side (I've highlighted the area), which indicates to me that they are probably the ELNA Silmic II caps: