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3e audio A7/A7 Mono Amplifier Review

Rate this amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 4 1.3%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 9 2.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 79 25.4%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 219 70.4%

  • Total voters
    311
Actually, not from me, but I specialize in narrowing down and analyzing problems.
Without measurements, such a thing is of course only possible to a limited extent.
But you're not alone, because such problems arise again and again and are often difficult to solve.

I would actually assume that the noise is being generated in the computer, possibly in the USB output area.
There might be an easy way to narrow it down.
With an SMSL PO100 or PO100 Pro and a Toslink connection to the DAC, you should be able to rule out everything else. This galvanic isolation then only transmits the actually present signal components.

If there is an eye roll, it is more likely due to helplessness in the face of such problems.

I totally understand the difficulty of figuring this stuff out without the ability to take proper measurements, and I don't think I can thank you enough for all of your advice/help/troubleshooting. It has been invaluable.

Alright. I ordered a PO100 Pro from Amazon that will arrive tomorrow. Like the USB isolator, if it doesn't change anything, it is easily returned, so no risk :)
 
I totally understand the difficulty of figuring this stuff out without the ability to take proper measurements, and I don't think I can thank you enough for all of your advice/help/troubleshooting. It has been invaluable.

Alright. I ordered a PO100 Pro from Amazon that will arrive tomorrow. Like the USB isolator, if it doesn't change anything, it is easily returned, so no risk :)
Great, this eliminates a lot of problems, and the galvanic isolation also eliminates the possibility of feedback.
Do you have the right Toslink cable?

By the way, the PO100 Pro is a great, small, and affordable DDC; I always have one or two of them in my drawer.
Ideal for galvanic isolation, upgrading old, broken, or no longer supported USB interfaces on DACs, etc.
 
Great, this eliminates a lot of problems, and the galvanic isolation also eliminates the possibility of feedback.
Do you have the right Toslink cable?

By the way, the PO100 Pro is a great, small, and affordable DDC; I always have one or two of them in my drawer.
Ideal for galvanic isolation, upgrading old, broken, or no longer supported USB interfaces on DACs, etc.

Yeah, I have spare cables coming out the butt, so it won't be a problem. I'll let you know the results tomorrow evening.

@Roland68 in anticipation of the testing I will be doing this evening, I see that the PO100 Pro has an I2S connector -- would I theoretically be able to use the HDMI out from the Mac Mini to the I2S connector on the PO100 Pro? I figured it could be an additional test condition I could try if USB doesn't change anything. NVM, I think the I2S connection is only an output...
 
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@Roland68

SUCCESS!!!!

NO popping at all. I tested with my PA5 II under the conditions I heard the popping, and then with the A7 connected.

Keeping the PO100 Pro, and I can now use the A7 in its intended place. I can't set the bit/sample rate higher than 32-bit/192kHz on my Mac's MIDI app, but I don't care, it all sounds fantastic! :)

Edit:

Looking more into USB DDCs, it turns out I already had one -- two, in fact: the Topping D10s. Apparently the Topping D10s can act as a USB DDC when using the optical output (bypassing the D10's DAC, and acting as a bridge). It's even in the Marketing material for the device on the Topping site. I'll still keep the PO1000 Pro, but if there's a compelling argument to use the D10s over the PO100 Pro, I wouldn't mind hearing pros/cons for either. The only differences I am aware of are the D10s is 24-bit/192kHz via optical where the PO100 Pro is 32-bit/192kHz. D10s uses XMOS XU208, the PO100 Pro uses the XMOS XU316. I'm sure the argument can be made that those differences would be utterly inaudible. The one advantage the D10s has over the PO100 Pro is its size. I've noticed with the PO100 Pro that the cables really want to tell this thing where to sit.

At any rate, the A7 is now fully set up in its proper home, and I spent most of the evening finally enjoying the amp. Man, it's a good amp. Compared to the PA5 II, when the volume dial is set at the same 9 o'clock position, the A7 is noticeably louder, and it's incredibly clean. No pop from turning on the unit, but the tiniest of pops when powering down (normal behaviour IMO, and nothing I am concerned with). The powering down pop with the PA5 II is slightly more audible, so there is an improvement, there. I have it set up, now, with my DAC in preamp mode, and the volume bypass enabled on the A7. The only minor "complaints" (and I use the term in the loosest sense) is the volume control on the amp is a bit janky up until you hit the 9 o'clock position -- This is mentioned in the manufacturer's information, so I was aware of the behaviour already. I usually prefer to use the amp to control the volume, but it seems like I do have a bit more control over the volume using the DAC instead, so that's how I will leave it.

I would almost like them to release a version of this amp without any volume control at all -- just a power button on the front, and maybe an optional gain toggle switch on the back with the usual balanced/RCA inputs, and a 12v trigger input (looking at you, @3eaudio :cool:).
 
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Regarding A7 with internal PSU :)
 

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@Roland68

SUCCESS!!!!

NO popping at all. I tested with my PA5 II under the conditions I heard the popping, and then with the A7 connected.

Keeping the PO100 Pro, and I can now use the A7 in its intended place. I can't set the bit/sample rate higher than 32-bit/192kHz on my Mac's MIDI app, but I don't care, it all sounds fantastic! :)

Edit:

Looking more into USB DDCs, it turns out I already had one -- two, in fact: the Topping D10s. Apparently the Topping D10s can act as a USB DDC when using the optical output (bypassing the D10's DAC, and acting as a bridge). It's even in the Marketing material for the device on the Topping site. I'll still keep the PO1000 Pro, but if there's a compelling argument to use the D10s over the PO100 Pro, I wouldn't mind hearing pros/cons for either. The only differences I am aware of are the D10s is 24-bit/192kHz via optical where the PO100 Pro is 32-bit/192kHz. D10s uses XMOS XU208, the PO100 Pro uses the XMOS XU316. I'm sure the argument can be made that those differences would be utterly inaudible. The one advantage the D10s has over the PO100 Pro is its size. I've noticed with the PO100 Pro that the cables really want to tell this thing where to sit.

At any rate, the A7 is now fully set up in its proper home, and I spent most of the evening finally enjoying the amp. Man, it's a good amp. Compared to the PA5 II, when the volume dial is set at the same 9 o'clock position, the A7 is noticeably louder, and it's incredibly clean. No pop from turning on the unit, but the tiniest of pops when powering down (normal behaviour IMO, and nothing I am concerned with). The powering down pop with the PA5 II is slightly more audible, so there is an improvement, there. I have it set up, now, with my DAC in preamp mode, and the volume bypass enabled on the A7. The only minor "complaints" (and I use the term in the loosest sense) is the volume control on the amp is a bit janky up until you hit the 9 o'clock position -- This is mentioned in the manufacturer's information, so I was aware of the behaviour already. I usually prefer to use the amp to control the volume, but it seems like I do have a bit more control over the volume using the DAC instead, so that's how I will leave it.

I would almost like them to release a version of this amp without any volume control at all -- just a power button on the front, and maybe an optional gain toggle switch on the back with the usual balanced/RCA inputs, and a 12v trigger input (looking at you, @3eaudio :cool:).
Yeah, I have spare cables coming out the butt, so it won't be a problem. I'll let you know the results tomorrow evening.

@Roland68 in anticipation of the testing I will be doing this evening, I see that the PO100 Pro has an I2S connector -- would I theoretically be able to use the HDMI out from the Mac Mini to the I2S connector on the PO100 Pro? I figured it could be an additional test condition I could try if USB doesn't change anything. NVM, I think the I2S connection is only an output...
Damnit... :D :cool:
I'm happy for you.

Then it must actually be a potential difference between the devices, which is transmitted back via the ground connection.
I'm surprised that the USB Isolator didn't work, but I only trust Intona's industrial devices.

The USB transmission quality could actually be a bit better with the XU316, partly because the implementation has also improved. Whether this also has an audible effect is another question. Maybe I'll add it to the list for our tests.

Technically, the potentiometer makes no difference; you could simply replace the potentiometer with resistors (voltage dividers). But especially if you're controlling the volume via the DAC/Mac, I would set the potentiometer to the maximum audible volume and then simply turn it down on the DAC/Mac. This prevents it from accidentally getting too loud.

The HDMI connector was repurposed for i2s and is not compatible with an HDMI connection. i2s also only transmits the same data as SPDIF.

If there is no switching power supply built into the amplifier, there can be no interference such as noise, whistling, or humming ;).

I'm glad you're now enjoying your great device.
 
I think for these highly efficient 3E amps, an internal power supply is on the losing side of the cost/benefit analysis. But there is clear market demand for a design with an internal power supply. Personal preference will go both ways on this question. One thing we can all agree on is the internal psu makes more sense for the A7 than the A5.
 
What is the problem with internal PSU?
Takes up more space on desk.
Higher cost of regulatory approval.
Greater shock hazard.
More complicated replacement of possible failed power supply.
Extra need to isolate from electrical noise.
Increase in total heat created inside cabinet
More expensive cabinet.
All minor problems, true. High powered and less efficient amps benefit more from an internal power supply where a wall wart with class 2 output is insufficient to meet power demand.
 
If an

I think that the question (a nuance I know) here is more :
'Can a dedicated internal PSU bring performance benefits?'
I don't see why it would
Takes up more space on desk.
Higher cost of regulatory approval.
Greater shock hazard.
More complicated replacement of possible failed power supply.
Extra need to isolate from electrical noise.
Increase in total heat created inside cabinet
More expensive cabinet.
All minor problems, true. High powered and less efficient amps benefit more from an internal power supply where a wall wart with class 2 output is insufficient to meet power demand.
More space personally is a non issue. I am ok with a nice looking metal box, even a slightly bigger one. I really don't like the clutter or look of an external PSU. I am constantly swapping around different components, and it's just so much more simple to just plug an IEC cable directly into the amp. The experience of ownership is just nicer for me, and I'm willing to pay a bit more for it. Currently I'm using Fosi V3 Mono's, and between the poor RCA performance, absence of 12v trigger, fixed standby, and 2 huge psu's that are bigger than the amps themselves, and being big ugly plastic hunks, there's just no pride of ownership or smiles on my face when I admire my system. 3e audio clearly knows their stuff, so isolation, thermals, and safety are all sure to be well taken care of. At the end of the day I think the only real substantive difference between internal/external will be cost, and if you prefer internal (as I do), and that experience and aesthetic is valuable to you, a cost benefit analysis that ignores that kinda misses the point imo. If the name of the game is max performance for least $ then go with external PSU. It'll be nice to have the option for internal though, and I'll be waiting for that to come around personally.
 
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I'm happy for you.

Then it must actually be a potential difference between the devices, which is transmitted back via the ground connection.
I'm surprised that the USB Isolator didn't work, but I only trust Intona's industrial devices.

The USB transmission quality could actually be a bit better with the XU316, partly because the implementation has also improved. Whether this also has an audible effect is another question. Maybe I'll add it to the list for our tests.

Technically, the potentiometer makes no difference; you could simply replace the potentiometer with resistors (voltage dividers). But especially if you're controlling the volume via the DAC/Mac, I would set the potentiometer to the maximum audible volume and then simply turn it down on the DAC/Mac. This prevents it from accidentally getting too loud.

The HDMI connector was repurposed for i2s and is not compatible with an HDMI connection. i2s also only transmits the same data as SPDIF.

If there is no switching power supply built into the amplifier, there can be no interference such as noise, whistling, or humming ;).

I'm glad you're now enjoying your great device.

Sorry for my over-the-top excitement, but when it was finally resolved after 6 weeks (?), I got very enthusiastic :eek:

I wouldn't know what the difference between the devices would be, and I'm guessing that the issue was different enough from what the USB isolator is designed to solve. I would be curious if there was a way to resolve it without the additional component, but I'm not complaining because it works.

I set up the D10s, and if there is an audible difference, I sure as hell can't hear it. Only noticeable difference is the SMSL disables my Mac volume control (i.e. pressing the volume buttons on my keyboard brings up the volume pop-up window, and it has a circle with the line through it), which is exactly what I want. D10s doesn't disable the volume control, so I have to set up an aggregate or multi-output device in the MIDI app to disable it (the reason is my cat sometimes likes to walk all over my keyboard over night, and I have spent too much time troubleshooting before I realized that's why sound wasn't working right). I'll leave the D10s in for now, and it's really only because of how light the PO100 Pro is, so the cables drag it, and causes it to sit awkwardly, and I have to drape another cable across it to hold it in place. The D10s is sturdier, and has that nice (IMO), orange alarm clock-like display that clearly displays the sample rate.

I also cannot wait for Topping to release the iOS app to be able to apply PEQ without having to switch over to a Windows virtual machine. Because my computer now only sees the D10s as the connected audio device instead of the D50 III, I need to keep a USB connection to be able to currently use Topping Tune. Not a huge deal, but using one less cable back there is always welcomed.

The thing with the pot is pretty common, so it's not really an issue for me, and 3e really does give people the heads-up about it so that you know before you even purchase the amp. Now I'm preferring using the DAC to control the volume anyway :)

I jokingly cursed at the prospect of a new 3e amp being released just after getting this one working in my system, but really after the DX5 II shows up, it has to be it for my desktop system (famous last words). About all I would even consider at this point -- later down the road -- is bumping the power supply up to the 10A version, but whether it's even necessary is up for debate (and why it's only a consideration at this time). Speakers are 8ohm nominal, 4.1 minimum.
 
Is the US Amazon presence gone already?

If I were to buy on AliExpress, am I understanding correctly that for the A7 stereo, I should buy the 48V10A PSU and A7 separately for a total of ~$500?
 
Is the US Amazon presence gone already?

If I were to buy on AliExpress, am I understanding correctly that for the A7 stereo, I should buy the 48V10A PSU and A7 separately for a total of ~$500?

On AliExpress, the A7 without the power supply is $267 USD, the 10A power supply is $64 USD -- that's $331 USD vs. $345 USD for the A7 with the stock power supply, and buying the 10A power supply separately.
 
On AliExpress, the A7 without the power supply is $267 USD, the 10A power supply is $64 USD -- that's $331 USD vs. $345 USD for the A7 with the stock power supply, and buying the 10A power supply separately.
I'm assuming that because I'm located in the US, I'm seeing prices with tariffs baked in.
 
I'm assuming that because I'm located in the US, I'm seeing prices with tariffs baked in.

Quite possibly, yes. The prices I cited were after changing the currency to USD, without going through the checkout process. Being in Canada, chances are those extra fees/tariffs don't apply, but in CAD the power supply by itself is about $92 for me, and it would be $486 total with the SKU that doesn't have the power supply with it ($497 CAD if the SKU with stock power supply is chosen and the 10A supply ordered separately).
 
Is the US Amazon presence gone already?

If I were to buy on AliExpress, am I understanding correctly that for the A7 stereo, I should buy the 48V10A PSU and A7 separately for a total of ~$500?
@Severian please wait few days, they are on the ways to Amazon warehouse.
 
Hi there,

Can someone explain to this electric noob, why the A7 Mono has two slots for two OPAmps but is only equipped with a single one?

My best guess would be they're using the same circuit board for all models, but the mono one is only equipped with one OpAmp, as it's, well, Mono.

Correct?

Thanks a lot for letting me know!

Bye,

Markus
 
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