37.5% duty charged on Ascilab speakers shipped to US [Resolved]

[pablolie]

It's not the seller collecting tax or charging, it is the delivery company following US Customs rules.

Nope, sellers that ship to CA are legally required to disclose all charges. If you buy something through Amazon they can not send you an additional bill after, ever.

As stated before, it must be made very clear -to he extreme- to buyers that additional charges may apply. Otherwise the seller will find temselves as a co-defendant when Fedex sends you a bill.

And by the way, Fedex or UPS or DHL or whoever have never, and I mean NEVER ever, extended me the courtesy of paying import taxes a priori. I got a "Your package is detained at customs until import charges are paid" or such. Never a bill after the fact. And I deal with that very often.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

We pay tariffs in EU since forever.
The difference is that if don't pay the tariff you don't get your stuff.

And we (the importers/consumers) are responsible for any violation this product may bring with it (stand by consumption more than 0.5W for example) .

This is the best approach and what DHL does here in the states.

Maybe UPS and FedEx will employ the same system in due time if this ends up becoming the norm (tariffs). Although unlikely as this is how UPS handles it in Canada (billing after delivery) and they have been doing it for a while there.

 

[pablolie]

We pay tariffs in EU since forever.
The difference is that if don't pay the tariff you don't get your stuff.

And we (the importers/consumers) are responsible for any violation this product may bring with it (stand by consumption more than 0.5W for example) .

We have always paid import tariffs in the US. Zero difference.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Nope, sellers that ship to CA are legally required to disclose all charges. If you buy something through Amazon they can not send you an additional bill after, ever.

As stated before, it must be made very clear -to he extreme- to buyers that additional charges may apply. Otherwise the seller will find temselves as a co-defendant when Fedex sends you a bill.

And by the way, Fedex or UPS or DHL or whoever have never, and I mean NEVER ever, extended me the courtesy of paying import taxes a priori. I got a "Your package is detained at customs until import charges are paid" or such. Never a bill after the fact. And I deal with that very often.

As said multiple times, the US Customs fees are not enforced or collected by the seller. So in your example, Amazon would not be sending a bill afterwards anyways.

And yes, it is common for FedEx and UPS to send bills collecting US Customs after delivery. I deal with them everyday so I definitely know.

 

[Groove01]

Declaring trade war with entire world will have massive consequences in medium to long term for us. These countries are not stupid. They will figure out how to counter. By that time it will be out of our control.

Remember, we invented the current world free trade system. Consequences of undoing it is beyond the comprehension of our government. I mean did we need put tariff on vanilla or bananas?

So no, I don't sit here whistling Dixie thinking it is just a minor issue. It is the most dramatic action we could take in world order.

Amir,

Your POV assumes these countries have the leverage and ability to counter in the long term. (Some absolutely do, some not so much) But likewise, we can cause equal pain in all instances. The point is that it’s not a one sided equation of which the outcomes are a forgone conclusion.

When all factors are considered objectively, I think we must at least consider it is equally likely this is a short term play to extract max value in negotiated terms.

You’ve been a senior executive, you’ve had to strategize highly complex contracts and deals. (I assume)

I’ve been on the buy side of more than my fair share of large, complex, strategic contract negotiations (it’s kind of what I do). Specifically, dealing with entrenched SW or infrastructure where the client/company is handcuffed to the solution.

In some cases these have a 2+yr planning and execution cycle with the sole intent of creating disruptive leverage to shift the negotiating position. Done correctly, this process looks a LOT like what we are seeing with tariffs. In almost every instance where the client is handcuffed to the solution, the process required the customer to absorb some level of pain.

This was the hardest part of the process, getting the business to understand they are in a shit situation and they have to eat some pain to get an improved long term situation.

Is it possible we are not facing a cataclysmic long term scenario and there is another desired outcome for which the current strategy supports? A more balanced level of trade.

I think we can all agree the tactics are brutish, distasteful, and off putting. But are they really any different than tactics used every day to extract max value in commercial transactions?

Edit: I agree they are painful and disruptive. I’m also not fully convinced this is the right approach and equally apprehensive of possible negative consequences. You can’t just turn the dial to “11” and set it back to 5 and everything hums along - lol.

So I’m not discounting the concerns, at all. I’m just trying to be objective and think through what’s the purpose and all “possible” outcomes vs just doom and gloom.

 

[Sokel]

This is the best approach and what DHL does here in the states.

Maybe UPS and FedEx will employ the same system in due time if this ends up becoming the norm (tariffs). Although unlikely as this is how UPS handles it in Canada (billing after delivery) and they have been doing it for a while there.

If I was to guess about it, they probably prioritize fast delivery (the whole tariff thing can take time, sometimes we wait for 5-15 days for the processes in Europe) and that shows respect.
Not much appreciated probably.

 

[a4eaudio]

...The large differences in wealth in the U.S. between the top 20% and the bottom 80% are mostly due to actions by the U.S. Federal Reserve during the 2008 financial crisis and the COVID disaster. Interest rates that were too low for too long. The biggest banks received the usual FED put including large injections of capital. All of this,increased the value of capital and made those with capital, such the average baby boomers like me, disproportionally better off, and the very wealth grew to ridiculously wealthy...

No. The trend break occurs around 1980-85.

Nothing significant happens at 2008.

Wealth inequality is worse than income inequality, but income inequality receives more attention. Also, no particular trend break in 2008.

 

[Soniclife]

Not sure what counts as very clearly, but pretty much every single shopping cart on a webpage has a big old link to the terms and conditions of sale. That link will take you to a statement such as the below.

View attachment 469070

https://medium.com/enrique-dans/the-biggest-lie-on-the-internet-i-have-read-and-understood-the-terms-of-service-54c7b2f77440

 

[pablolie]

As said multiple times, the US Customs fees are not enforced or collected by the seller. So in your example, Amazon would not be sending a bill afterwards anyways.

And yes, it is common for FedEx and UPS to send bills collecting US Customs after delivery. I deal with them everyday so I definitely know.

I have never disputed that shipping companies notify you of additional costs. But they -in my experience- simply let sit down in customs until you pay the bill. And customs will never ever let a product though unless import taxes have been covered.

I very often ravel with equipment costing in excess of $50k to a tradeshow or such. You will not make it through customs unless you pay the "import fee" (which can be typically refunded if you show the product leaves the country with you).

Let's go for a hypothetical example. I order a BMW here in California for $85k. The invoice includes taxes, luxury taxes, gas guzzler taxt and all of that. Hidden in the car's sticker rise is the 2.5% import fee that has ALWAYS applied to import tax. It is insane to assume that I can now receive an additional $20k bill from the container ship company if the dealer didn't clear write that into the sales contract. Period. They get the car back and I get a full refund. CA consumer protection in full effect.

 

[pablolie]

You are 100% wrong in the US.
You are the Consumer and IMPORTER of record.
Deny. Ignore. Say it isn't fair. Yell. Pout. Throw a tantrum.
Doesn't change what you are in this transaction under US law until US changes its laws and regulations.

You guys don't get it - it MUST be mentioned in the sales contract, very clearly, that there will be another bill coming. Otherwise send the product back.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

I have never disputed that shipping companies notify you of additional costs. But they -in my experience- simply let sit down in customs until you pay the bill. And customs will never ever a product though unless import taxes have been covered.

And I'm telling you right now that is not how UPS and FedEx do it, at least for me in the last five years. I have always received bills after my shipments are delivered to me that include Customs fees. The fees have already been paid beforehand by the shipping company (FedEx and UPS in this case).

DHL collects money beforehand.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Let's go for a hypothetical example. I order a BMW here in California for $85k. The invoice includes taxes, luxury taxes, gas guzzler taxt and all of that. Hidden in the car's sticker rise is the 2.5% import fee that has ALWAYS applied to import tax. It is insane to assume that I can now receive an additional $20k bill from the container ship company if the dealer didn't clear write that into the sales contract. Period.

BMW is the importer so they would be on the hook for the import fees and then it is up to them if they pass it on to the buyer.

 

[a4eaudio]

....Their drivers are all seas or scanpeak - so wherever they are currently produced. ...

I don't know about Seas, but Aerial speakers have used Scanspeak and SB Acoustics (Indonesia) for a long time. Parts Express has had at least two big sales of Factory Buyout Scanspeak and SB Acoustics drivers that they got from Aerial.

 

[PristineSound]

Let's go for a hypothetical example. I order a BMW here in California for $85k. The invoice includes taxes, luxury taxes, gas guzzler taxt and all of that. Hidden in the car's sticker rise is the 2.5% import fee that has ALWAYS applied to import tax. It is insane to assume that I can now receive an additional $20k bill from the container ship company if the dealer didn't clear write that into the sales contract. Period.

Com'on you're better than this.

BMW USA is the importer, they pay the tariff and then they pass it on to you the consumer, you won't see a line item for it, because it's in the price.

When Amir gets his few containers of Ascilab, he needs to pay the tariff because he is the importer.

If I buy directly from Ascilab from Korea, I pay the tariff because I'm the importer, which is what happened to the OP.

 

[pablolie]

And I'm telling you right now that is not how UPS and FedEx do it, at least for me in the last five years. I have always received bills after my shipments are delivered to me that include Customs fees. The fees have already been paid beforehand by the shipping company (FedEx and UPS in this case).

DHL collects money beforehand.

Not my experience. We ship equipment to trade shows all the time. It sits at customs until our finance department pays whatever shipping company, never heard otherwise. Sometimes the company has money parked in its Fedex account to cover import duties a priori, and keeps it funded. The same happens often when I send -typically electronics like smartphones or tablets- to family in Spain. Whatever shipping company will tell me my shipment will stay in customs until I cover the import fee. In my family they'd be mad at me if they have to cover import fees for gifts, not sure about yours.

 

[Salt]

This is derailing now from the original topic ... might be worse to open an own one like 'How to get some stuff into US without missing additional costs'?

 

[Timcognito]

Negotiation tactics should not involve whimsically changing tariff amounts every couple of weeks with escalating values but should be a titration to common reasonable number. Our six time bankrupt leader is playing games with a huge economic step function that could end up in a recession, out of control inflation and job loses in the US. If the holiday spending numbers take a big hit because of higher prices or lack of inventory get ready for some tough times as the market and industry won't like it.

 

[pablolie]

Com'on you're better than this.

BMW USA is the importer, they pay the tariff and then they pass it on to you the consumer, you won't see a line item for it, because it's in the price.

When Amir gets his few containers of Ascilab, he needs to pay the tariff because he is the importer.

If I buy directly from Ascilab from Korea, I pay the tariff because I'm the importer, which is what happened to the OP.

I don't know when or where I disputed any of this. I never did.

My point is merely that if you sell to US consumers, you may well be legally liable if you don't make it perfectly clear that additional import taxes may apply. Makes the sales contract illegal, basically. May impact their future ability to conduct any business in the USA. That's why I never deal with companies that do not have official representation in the USA.

I tried to go to the Ascilab website to see if there are such disclaimers if I were to buy from them directly, but can't ascertain it because all the products are sold out (good for them) and one can't check the sales order.

 

[levimax]

Are you sure? Does that take into account the foreign components in the 86% of GDP that is not imported? I don't think so.

According to a January 17, 2025 report from the U.S. Department of Commerce, economists estimate that in 2023, 52% of the value in gross domestic purchases reflected domestic content—meaning 48% of what Americans purchased (across consumers, businesses, and government) was attributable to foreign content, either in finished goods or inputs .

In other words, about 48% of consumer-related purchases in the U.S. are manufactured abroad.

Services are the biggest part of the economy

 

[Groove01]

So you got nothing?

Or are saying these tariffs does not cause inflation?

Can you please share the memo with SVS, KEF, Ascend Acoustics and @Buckeye Amps and tell them to immediately stop increasing their prices?


EDIT: I think you are losing track of what you are arguing with me about. So let me help you out, I made a comment about how dumb some Americans are who believes that buying "American Made" will entirely eliminate any trickle down tariffs impacts because of a global supply chain.

You know how engineers hate arguing with non engineers who are 100% convinced power cables make a difference…

This is religion to you, it’s not to me. You’re not interested in an exchange of ideas, your just interested in the dogmatic defense of your religion.

It’s really not very interesting, kind of like the cable wars aren’t really interesting after the thousandth time.

I apologize that I said I thought your responses to others’ posts were pedantic; and your mastery of economic theory is impressive.

Can we be done now?