37.5% duty charged on Ascilab speakers shipped to US [Resolved]

[Buckeye Amps]

On the topic of FedEx/UPS:

Since it is likely more and more people will be dealing with after delivery bills from FedEx/UPS, it should also be noted that you will see one or two extra charges on the bill outside of the actual tariff amount/amount due to US customs. UPS usually calls this a Brokerage Fee (I forget what FedEx calls it).

This is normal as well. DHL and USPS have the lowest fees. UPS usually has the highest.

 

[amirm]

Tariffs are a minor financial issue compared to the problems outlined above

Declaring trade war with entire world will have massive consequences in medium to long term for us. These countries are not stupid. They will figure out how to counter. By that time it will be out of our control.

Remember, we invented the current world free trade system. Consequences of undoing it is beyond the comprehension of our government. I mean did we need put tariff on vanilla or bananas?

So no, I don't sit here whistling Dixie thinking it is just a minor issue. It is the most dramatic action we could take in world order.

 

[pablolie]

Based on Internet searches: Imports of goods to the U.S. in 2024 of $3.4 trillion ($4.1 trillion with services) make up a small portion of the United States GDP of $30 trillion.

Imports do not count in the GDP, which is only concerned with "domestic" consumption/investment. But I know what you mean. For some (especially accounting people), over 10% is not a negligible percentage.

...
You should understand that all countries have tariffs and often more importantly, rules which limit or prohibit imports of selected goods. For example, without EU and local European country rules, the U.S., Russia, and Ukraine without the war, would drive a huge number of European farmers out of business. ...

We're drifting far away from the original topic, which was about the impact of tariffs on audio gear... but agriculture is a horrible example when it comes to discussing the merits of market economy. The huge subsidies that our governments throw at domestic agriculture make it a showcase for socialist-communist practices - exactly what we accuse China of.

The large differences in wealth in the U.S. between the top 20% and the bottom 80% are mostly due to actions by the U.S. Federal Reserve during the 2008 financial crisis and the COVID disaster. Interest rates that were too low for too long. The biggest banks received the usual FED put including large injections of capital. All of this,increased the value of capital and made those with capital, such the average baby boomers like me, disproportionally better off, and the very wealth grew to ridiculously wealthy.

The differences have always been huge, but you are completely correct in pointing at the artificial bubbles that lead to the 2008 disaster, several of them are still in effect. The Fed didn't bail out house owners that were about to be evicted, but it was happy to bail out the criminally incompetent financing industry that extended such loans.

 

[pablolie]

On the topic of FedEx/UPS:

Since it is likely more and more people will be dealing with after delivery bills from FedEx/UPS, it should also be noted that you will see one or two extra charges on the bill outside of the actual tariff amount/amount due to US customs. UPS usually calls this a Brokerage Fee (I forget what FedEx calls it).

This is normal as well. DHL and USPS have the lowest fees. UPS usually has the highest.

If I purchase a product, I look at the order I am about to confirm, and establish tax and shipping charges. I'd consider sending me another, additional bill *after* the purchase a fraudulent business practice. Unless there was a BIG and very visible disclaimer that the bill is PROVISIONAL and additional charges may apply, in which case I'd delete the order on the spot.

And I think that may be quite defensible in court. I'd simply say "I paid the amount I was quoted, including shipping and applicable taxes".

 

[Mart68]

If I purchase a product, I look at the order I am about to confirm, and establish tax and shipping charges. I'd consider sending me another, additional bill *after* the purchase a fraudulent business practice. Unless there was a BIG and very visible disclaimer that the bill is PROVISIONAL and additional charges may apply, in which case I'd delete the order on the spot.

And I think that may be quite defensible in court. I'd simply say "I paid the amount I was quoted, including shipping and applicable taxes".

That isn't a defence in the UK, I don't know about elsewhere.

 

[Luvchampagne]

If I purchase a product, I look at the order I am about to confirm, and establish tax and shipping charges. I'd consider sending me another, additional bill *after* the purchase a fraudulent business practice. Unless there was a BIG and very visible disclaimer that the bill is PROVISIONAL and additional charges may apply, in which case I'd delete the order on the spot.

And I think that may be quite defensible in court. I'd simply say "I paid the amount I was quoted, including shipping and applicable taxes".

You are 100% wrong in the US.
You are the Consumer and IMPORTER of record.
Deny. Ignore. Say it isn't fair. Yell. Pout. Throw a tantrum.
Doesn't change what you are in this transaction under US law until US changes its laws and regulations.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

If I purchase a product, I look at the order I am about to confirm, and establish tax and shipping charges. I'd consider sending me another, additional bill *after* the purchase a fraudulent business practice. Unless there was a BIG and very visible disclaimer that the bill is PROVISIONAL and additional charges may apply, in which case I'd delete the order on the spot.

And I think that may be quite defensible in court. I'd simply say "I paid the amount I was quoted, including shipping and applicable taxes".

Ok but that's how it works

 

[a4eaudio]

This true but GDP is an economic not physical measure. Clothing, consumer electronics, toys, winter fruits and vegetables, and many other things are imported to the US, not supplied from the US and lower income people rely on there availability at affordable prices. The issue is availability and affordability.

To be clear I was just stating a fact that is almost always ignored. The tariffs are bad!! While I can come up with a few theoretical instances where a tariff could be beneficial, none of them would apply to the current implementation.

 

[pablolie]

That isn't a defence in the UK, I don't know about elsewhere.

Are you a lawyer? I asked a lawyer friend, and she stated the potential additional import taxes MUST be VERY CLEARLY stated in the original order. She recommends sellers should add a box that buyers should check to confirm they are aware of additional charges. If not, the original order must be fulfilled on all terms because it it a legally binding sales contract - both in the US and every EU country.

 

[audio_tony]

If I purchase a product, I look at the order I am about to confirm, and establish tax and shipping charges. I'd consider sending me another, additional bill *after* the purchase a fraudulent business practice.

But the vendor in this case is not responsible for the collection (or payment) of the tariff. They may be aware that a tariff is in place, but it's not up to them to quote the additional fee.

As has been said many times in this thread, payment of the tariff is the responsibility of the importer.

If an importer is a business, then they will likely include the tariff in their final price to the public. But in this instance, the importer was an independent person who should have factored the tariff into their final costs.

There's nothing fraudulent about it.

 

[muslhead]

To be clear I was just stating a fact that is almost always ignored. The tariffs are bad!! While I can come up with a few theoretical instances where a tariff could be beneficial, none of them would apply to the current implementation.

Ok, maybe so.
Put on your big boys pants and deal with it. No one, including me,. likes it. If you dont like it, dont buy it. This is America.
This is an audio forum not a place to whine and bitch.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Are you a lawyer? I asked a lawyer friend, and she stated the potential additional import taxes MUST be VERY CLEARLY stated in the original order. She recommends sellers should add a box that buyers should check to confirm they are aware of additional charges. If not, the original order must be fulfilled on all terms because it it a legally binding sales contract - both in the US and every EU country.

It's not the seller collecting tax or charging, it is the delivery company following US Customs rules. You are more than welcome to order a product from overseas knowing full well tariffs are now in effect and then refusing to pay the US Customs fee and then taking the issue to court if you'd like. But ignorance has never been a strong defense in courts.

 

[pablolie]

But the vendor in this case is not responsible for the collection (or payment) of the tariff. They may be aware that a tariff is in place, but it's not up to them to quote the additional fee.

As has been said many times in this thread, payment of the tariff is the responsibility of the importer.

If an importer is a business, then they will likely include the tariff in their final price to the public. But in this instance, the importer was an independent person who should have factored the tariff into their final costs.

There's nothing fraudulent about it.

It is unless the vendor made it very clear additional charges may well apply when they ship internationally. I just got it confirmed by a lawyer. If I buy a $1k product and get an additional, previously unannounced $450 bill after the fact, I'd dispute it - and if necessary I'd send the product back.

 

[PristineSound]

a suggested starting point, perhaps you could offer a primer on the causes of inflation followed by possible corrective measures to contain/lower inflation and the associated impacts of those corrective measures.

So you got nothing?

Or are saying these tariffs does not cause inflation?

Can you please share the memo with SVS, KEF, Ascend Acoustics and @Buckeye Amps and tell them to immediately stop increasing their prices?


EDIT: I think you are losing track of what you are arguing with me about. So let me help you out, I made a comment about how dumb some Americans are who believes that buying "American Made" will entirely eliminate any trickle down tariffs impacts because of a global supply chain.

 

[a4eaudio]

....In 2008 the GDP of the EU and the U.S. were about equal, now the U.S. is far ahead. ...The differences in GDP between the two regions continues to grow. The EU emphasis on green energy and restrictive trade practices will soon make it backwater compared to China and the U.S. with other countries such as India gaining ground.

The flaws in GDP as a measure of actual well-being have been well established for the last 40 years. It is interesting that you use the term "backwater". Producing more tangible goods, cheaply using coal, and having a high measured GDP but living with the highest rates of chronic disease, air pollution, lead in the water, etc. does not make a country better off.

Based on surveys of happiness, below are the top 10 countries in the world. (The US is 23rd, China 68th, and India 118. Not only is Finland laughing at the US, to add insult to injury they design better speakers.)

1. Finland
2. Denmark
3. Iceland
4. Sweden
5. Netherlands
6. Costa Rica
7. Norway
8. Israel
9. Luxembourg
10. Mexico

 

[Mart68]

Are you a lawyer? I asked a lawyer friend, and she stated the potential additional import taxes MUST be VERY CLEARLY stated in the original order. She recommends sellers should add a box that buyers should check to confirm they are aware of additional charges. If not, the original order must be fulfilled on all terms because it it a legally binding sales contract - both in the US and every EU country.

20 years in credit control and debt recovery, 15 of them with FedEx. I have specific experience, lots of it.

But as I said, I don't know about outside the UK. Countries have different legal systems, even within the EU. I can't speak for how it is there.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

It is unless the vendor made it very clear additional charges may well apply when they ship internationally. I just got it confirmed by a lawyer. If I buy a $1k product and get an additional, previously unannounced $450 bill after the fact, I'd dispute it - and if necessary I'd send the product back.

Cool but again, the seller has no responsibility in regards to what you, the importer, owes US Customs.

You can send the item back but you'll still have a bill of what you owe to US Customs (via the delivery company). And you can choose to not pay and see where it leads.

 

[a4eaudio]

...This is an audio forum not a place to whine and bitch.

Are you sure, have you not followed the threads on Borresen speakers?

 

[Sokel]

Are you a lawyer? I asked a lawyer friend, and she stated the potential additional import taxes MUST be VERY CLEARLY stated in the original order. She recommends sellers should add a box that buyers should check to confirm they are aware of additional charges. If not, the original order must be fulfilled on all terms because it it a legally binding sales contract - both in the US and every EU country.

We pay tariffs in EU since forever.
The difference is that if don't pay the tariff you don't get your stuff.

And we (the importers/consumers) are responsible for any violation this product may bring with it (stand by consumption more than 0.5W for example) .

 

[IPunchCholla]

Are you a lawyer? I asked a lawyer friend, and she stated the potential additional import taxes MUST be VERY CLEARLY stated in the original order. She recommends sellers should add a box that buyers should check to confirm they are aware of additional charges. If not, the original order must be fulfilled on all terms because it it a legally binding sales contract - both in the US and every EU country.

Not sure what counts as very clearly, but pretty much every single shopping cart on a webpage has a big old link to the terms and conditions of sale. That link will take you to a statement such as the below.