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37.5% duty charged on Ascilab speakers shipped to US [Resolved]

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amirm said:
we have a government led by people who don't know silicon from silicone.
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They certainly do 'know' silicone:

laura-loomer-after.jpg
 
sam_adams said:
They certainly do 'know' silicone:

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Arghhhhhhhh………who is that?…….never mind……... Run away……….run away……..

For the love of god kill it with fire…….or I guess any slight heat and it’ll melt much like the wicked witch in wizard of oz
 
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PristineSound said:
Ok, but during COVID are you saying there was no inflation? Because the fed raised rates to combat inflation, no?
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I'm making the assumption this wasn't a rhetorical question :) I'm not going to address this directly, as it is too off-topic and would also rely on some subjective interpretations. There are lots of things other than pure economics that drive the Feds decisions. Rather, let me expand on some terminology as used in this thread about tariffs and inflation.

Early in the thread there was a distinction whether tariffs (a tax increase) could lead to inflation, whereas an increase in income taxes would not be expected to increase inflation. These both refer to "inflation" in the (incorrect) manner the layman uses the term - a simple increase in prices. However, there is a significant distinction (at least for economists) between one time (or temporary) increase in the price level and sustained increases in prices year after year. The correct distinction would have been whether different tax policies could effect the price level (not inflation) differently, and I explained how a tariff leads to a decrease in supply (leftward shift in the supply curve) resulting in a higher price level (not inflation) and lower equilibrium quantity. An increase in the income tax would lead to a decrease in demand (leftward shift in the demand curve) resulting in a lower price level (not inflation) and lower equilibrium quantity.

Monetary/Macro Economists refer to inflation as "a sustained increase in the price of everything that we consume" and the CATO article linked in post #345 is pretty good, although it still falls into the trap of calling some temporary increases in the price level inflation.

An example: Bird Flu wipes out millions of egg-laying chickens which decreases the supply of eggs. This shifts the supply curve to the left and the price of eggs increases. If the price of eggs affects the measured Consumer Price Index (CPI) this will be "inflation" as the layman sees it - i.e., an increase in the CPI. If the price of eggs goes up from $4 to $5 that is 25% egg-inflation in that year. If nothing ever changes, the price will remain at $5, a permanent increase in the price level but a one time increase of inflation (25%) in the first year and 0% inflation in subsequent years.

PristineSound said:
And if it's not considered inflation because it doesn't fall into the definition, are you saying these price hikes are ok to have? Because it's not ok for me and my wallet.
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Tariffs are leading to price increases. If they are in fact permanent, this will lead to "inflation" (measured increases in the CPI) in 2025 and probably 2026. The prices, even if they remain permanently higher, will not continue to increase year after year, thus this is in reality a increase in the price level and temporary inflation. This is no different than an egg supply shock, an oil supply shock, an invasion of a European democracy, a one-time expansionary fiscal policy due to a pandemic, etc. None of these things are good for you (or me) and our wallets. Are they "ok to have"? Well, there is not much we can do about most of these shocks, so it is usually not a matter of "ok" or "not ok". I think one of the things about the tariffs that is most frustrating to people is that they are actually a choice, and almost all of the reasons provided for that choice are easily refuted. Thus, the several links throughout this thread pointing out the inconsistencies in the arguments used to justify the tariffs.
 
amirm said:
Thinking is all I ask, before taking nuclear option.

Take Chinese government vs us. 10 years ago they said Solar, Green energy and storage was going be key. Fast forward to now and they dominate the world in all of that. The industry was given a clear goal, likely heavily incentivized by the government, and they accomplished it in spades. They went fully integrated from dirt (minerals) to fully finished cars. On that front, they did the impossible: getting phone companies to build cars!

I like us to think and figure out what we should dominate this way. Seems to me, semiconductors are it. Our appetite for it is only growing. And growing exponentially. It is far easier to dominate in that and take the lead from Taiwan's TSMC than it is to have garment factories here again. The chip act was noise by the way and nothing like what China did above.

Alas, we have a government led by people who don't know silicon from silicone. So they continue the playbook of 1970s of "bring back jobs." We chase out people picking strawberries in heat of summer and humidity in Florida, thinking some American would want that job. Even if they did, the cost of strawberries would then be $20 per pound.

The government has always been dumb with politicians more interested in power than doing good. But they didn't take drastic action so damage that they could cause was very limited. And at any rate, every 4 years we had a chance at a new government. That all changed in January of this year. In just a few months, incredible amount of change is made with constant variability. By the time 4 years is up, we will not recognize where we will be if this trend continues.

Some good may come out of it by accident. But we best not rule by accident.
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I feel like we are agreeing on most things - lol. :cool:.
 
a4eaudio said:
I'm making the assumption this wasn't a rhetorical question :) I'm not going to address this directly, as it is too off-topic and would also rely on some subjective interpretations. There are lots of things other than pure economics that drive the Feds decisions. Rather, let me expand on some terminology as used in this thread about tariffs and inflation.

Early in the thread there was a distinction whether tariffs (a tax increase) could lead to inflation, whereas an increase in income taxes would not be expected to increase inflation. These both refer to "inflation" in the (incorrect) manner the layman uses the term - a simple increase in prices. However, there is a significant distinction (at least for economists) between one time (or temporary) increase in the price level and sustained increases in prices year after year. The correct distinction would have been whether different tax policies could effect the price level (not inflation) differently, and I explained how a tariff leads to a decrease in supply (leftward shift in the supply curve) resulting in a higher price level (not inflation) and lower equilibrium quantity. An increase in the income tax would lead to a decrease in demand (leftward shift in the demand curve) resulting in a lower price level (not inflation) and lower equilibrium quantity.

Monetary/Macro Economists refer to inflation as "a sustained increase in the price of everything that we consume" and the CATO article linked in post #345 is pretty good, although it still falls into the trap of calling some temporary increases in the price level inflation.

An example: Bird Flu wipes out millions of egg-laying chickens which decreases the supply of eggs. This shifts the supply curve to the left and the price of eggs increases. If the price of eggs affects the measured Consumer Price Index (CPI) this will be "inflation" as the layman sees it - i.e., an increase in the CPI. If the price of eggs goes up from $4 to $5 that is 25% egg-inflation in that year. If nothing ever changes, the price will remain at $5, a permanent increase in the price level but a one time increase of inflation (25%) in the first year and 0% inflation in subsequent years.



Tariffs are leading to price increases. If they are in fact permanent, this will lead to "inflation" (measured increases in the CPI) in 2025 and probably 2026. The prices, even if they remain permanently higher, will not continue to increase year after year, thus this is in reality a increase in the price level and temporary inflation. This is no different than an egg supply shock, an oil supply shock, an invasion of a European democracy, a one-time expansionary fiscal policy due to a pandemic, etc. None of these things are good for you (or me) and our wallets. Are they "ok to have"? Well, there is not much we can do about most of these shocks, so it is usually not a matter of "ok" or "not ok". I think one of the things about the tariffs that is most frustrating to people is that they are actually a choice, and almost all of the reasons provided for that choice are easily refuted. Thus, the several links throughout this thread pointing out the inconsistencies in the arguments used to justify the tariffs.
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I hope at the end of the day, most people who don't live under a rock would agree that price hike ain't good for consumers and most businesses, especially small businesses. And any price hike as a result of tariffs are likely permanent, no matter what happens at the end.
 
a4eaudio said:
Tariffs are leading to price increases. If they are in fact permanent, this will lead to "inflation" (measured increases in the CPI) in 2025 and probably 2026. The prices, even if they remain permanently higher, will not continue to increase year after year, thus this is in reality a increase in the price level and temporary inflation.
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What I fear is that one price increase, leads to price increase in other areas. Take fuel prices. As soon as it goes up, cost of transportation goes up. Heck, just pumping our septic years back when this happened, had a "fuel surcharge." When that goes up, the others jack of their prices. There will then be pressure to raise wages. Next thing you know, everything costs twice as much if not more.

I am shocked at the cost increases in the last few years. Half-fast-food restaurants around here now charge $25 to $30 for a meal when it used to cost half as much. Trades like plumbers charge $130/hour with straight face. Law firm that used to charge $300 went up to $500/hour.

Sad thing is that once prices go up like this, they never come back down. As is, when imports are tariffed, local producers jack of up their prices to match theirs. They would not sit there and charge less when more profit could be had. I mean look at the price of cars. It was already insane to spend $50 for Honda and now that will go up 10 to 15K.

It is one thing for natural inflation to do this. It is another for our government to force this. And then stupidly claim "we are collecting so much money!" Yes, you are collecting it from us, not the foreign government you say is paying for it.
 
amirm said:
What I fear is that one price increase, leads to price increase in other areas. Take fuel prices. As soon as it goes up, cost of transportation goes up. Heck, just pumping our septic years back when this happened, had a "fuel surcharge." When that goes up, the others jack of their prices. There will then be pressure to raise wages. Next thing you know, everything costs twice as much if not more.

I am shocked at the cost increases in the last few years. Half-fast-food restaurants around here now charge $25 to $30 for a meal when it used to cost half as much. Trades like plumbers charge $130/hour with straight face. Law firm that used to charge $300 went up to $500/hour.

Sad thing is that once prices go up like this, they never come back down. As is, when imports are tariffed, local producers jack of up their prices to match theirs. They would not sit there and charge less when more profit could be had. I mean look at the price of cars. It was already insane to spend $50 for Honda and now that will go up 10 to 15K.

It is one thing for natural inflation to do this. It is another for our government to force this. And then stupidly claim "we are collecting so much money!" Yes, you are collecting it from us, not the foreign government you say is paying for it.
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VAT vs Tariff vs Income Tax vs Sales Tax do you feel like one tax is "better" than another? They all reduce economic activity and lower living standards. No matter how you look at it the US has relatively low taxes. If we don't raise revenue or cut sevices then we run large deficits which are also inflationary and a form of tax. In the whole scheme of things tariffs are a small issue being blown out of proportion..... except for direct purchases of hi-fi gear from some countries which can certainly be painful for an individual but in the overall scheme of things not so much.
 
levimax said:
Here is a decent article written by an economist that hates tariffs, and as I said I don't like them either, but his conclusion and the conclusion of almost all mainstream economists is that tariffs are not inflationary. They cause a one time increase in price level but not the rate of change of prices which is the definition of inflation. It is a long article but the except about inflation is below. Maybe we are arguing semantics.
https://www.cato.org/commentary/great-tariff-inflation-confusion

Put another way, global tariffs will increase the price level but not its rate of change (aka “inflation”)—at least not in the longer term. Thus, most economists expect the CPI or PCE to tick up this year because of Trump’s tariffs, but only temporarily. (In general, the widely held view among various professional economists is that we’ll see a gradual, 1‑ish percentage point increase in the CPI and PCE figures, peaking later this year and early next but mostly subsiding after 2026.) Those higher prices still mean pain for American consumers, of course, but the increase wouldn’t technically be “inflation” as economists understand and define it. And any CPI uplift we do see in the coming year or so will pale in comparison with the recent post-pandemic inflation we’ve lived through, because imported goods are still relatively small shares of Americans’ total spending.
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That assessment is wrong on many levels. Trump tariffs are not normal by any standard. They vary at the drop of a hat and continue to change. It's certainly not normal policy that has ever been studied before under any circumstances. When tariffs are a weapon and not simply a stable economic tool it's a totally different impact. Business can't plan, individuals can't order outside the country without taking large price risks. Business is reducing the workforce just as they normally do prior to a recession. The answer is to fire the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics when you don't like the report? What can possibly go wrong with this tactic? Even more uncertainty and slower recovery.

In addition, when you combine mass deportation of immigrants at the same time the impact is amplified in every sector. All off a sudden there are few or no workers to harvest crops, no landscapers, roofs don't get replaced, service employees are hard to find. Everything gets more expensive quickly. These workers no longer pay into Social Security and Medicare, causing these programs to run out of funding sooner. Add the mass destruction that comes with climate change in various parts of the country and insurance rates rocket while few are available to complete repairs. Put all of this together. Mass immigrant deportation, huge new tariffs and violent weather make a bad situation much worse. It's really a perfect storm brought on by mass stupidity.
 
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UPDATE: AsciLab has informed me that the China-based duty was a mistake:
Hello,

This seems to have been a mistake. Our products are produced in Korea. We will send you the documents to prove this.

You can submit the attached documents to FedEx and ask for a correction.

The email address to send the documents is [email protected], and please include the invoice number you received in the email subject line.

We will also request a correction to FedEx.

Thank you.
Best regards

AsciLab
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I am no longer able to edit my original post. I have submitted a request to the mods to do so.
 
Groove01 said:
I think we can all agree the tactics are brutish, distasteful, and off putting.
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Not to mention counter to our founding documents.

“All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives” - Constitution of the United States of America, Article 1, Section 7.

Tariffs were, of course, the OG revenue source for our government.

While most of the country seems to be sleeping on that, a Prof. Ilya Somin and Judge Michael McConnell from the right and Prof. Neal Katyal from the leftish-center have put on Superman capes and are challenging the constitutionality of these lawless acts. https://libertyjusticecenter.org/pr...trump-administrations-liberation-day-tariffs/
 
MarkS said:
UPDATE: AsciLab has informed me that the China-based duty was a mistake:

I am no longer able to edit my original post. I have submitted a request to the mods to do so.
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Hope you are able to recover some of your losses there. Your experience sounds really bad. Personally I would have send it all back but they sound like amazing speakers that may be worth the surprising additional import duty.
 
jhaider said:
Not to mention counter to our founding documents.

“All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives” - Constitution of the United States of America, Article 1, Section 7.

Tariffs were, of course, the OG revenue source for our government.

While most of the country seems to be sleeping on that, a Prof. Ilya Somin and Judge Michael McConnell from the right and Prof. Neal Katyal from the leftish-center have put on Superman capes and are challenging the constitutionality of these lawless acts. https://libertyjusticecenter.org/pr...trump-administrations-liberation-day-tariffs/
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In principle, I feel like the greater tragedy is the general populace is numb to it as both sides cry constitutional fouls and both are equally willing to push the limits to their advantage.

I’m glad to see a bi-partisan approach/legal opinion but ultimately really wish “party” wasn’t even a factor in questions of this nature.

It’s almost like one needs to be a constitutional scholar to keep a watch full eye out now.
 
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jhaider said:
That’s simply not true. There’s quite a massive chasm between what is happening now and what came before. Let’s not let faux objectivity get in the way of clear-eyed analysis.
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Expanding the Supreme Court, forgiving student debts, auto signing and the question of his cognitive capacity.

If given the chance either is capable of going too far. And both sides have pushed up to and gone over the line. One being worse than the other is subjective.

I’m saying they are both bad in this regard.
 
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