37.5% duty charged on Ascilab speakers shipped to US [Resolved]

[Buckeye Amps]

It *is* a problem because the sales contract is binding in many countries - WYSIWYG stuff. And unless it provides a clear and visible disclaimer that additional import taxes may be levied in your country as you are acting as the importer -as someone above showed-, as the seller it may well impact your ability to conduct business in that country if enough consumers complain (which you're giving them every right to do as the seller). That's why many companies and sellers refuse to sell to certain geographies until they have established legal entities there (well it's not the only reason, but not burning growth opportunities is one of them).

OK

 

[IPunchCholla]

Why all the name calling and angst over a policy that you disagree with? I don't like tariffs or any taxes for that matter but the reality is governments need to raise money one way or another and at the end of the day taxes are all the same. I have 2 points which are tariffs are only part of the new policies and that tariffs are not by themselves inflationary and in fact are most likely deflationary. This is standard economic theory which is far from cut and dried like "Ohms law". Time will tell but at this point the most reliable forward looking economic indicator, which is the stock market, has concluded that tariffs and the new US policies are not going to be a big issue. When it comes to economics "muddle through" is by far the most likely outcome and gloom and doom or euphoria are seldom useful ways to think about the future.

Personally, I have no idea what will happen due to tariffs. I have no opinion on them as policy and just dislike them from a paying more perspective. But this idea that taxes are all the same is really strange to me. How taxes are structured massively effects individuals and that seems almost universal for economists.

About 10 years ago, I tongue in cheek proposed we go to a flat income tax. Not a flat rate, but a flat tax. The government decides how much they want to collect, and everyone pays an equal share. So, for 2022, divide 2.1 trillion by 330 million. So every single person in the US owes $6363.64. How would doing it that way change our society compared to the percentages we currently use? It seems HOW taxes are implemented matters.

 

[Timcognito]

OK

Do you plan to change prices to get more business in the US? Curious as the latest ASR review was outstanding.

 

[pablolie]

I bet it is raging on car sites, camera sites, travel sites, and others. 30% plus increases on goods in the US is a huge topic.

Especially if it is a completely unexpected bill after the fact.

 

[amirm]

I have never once had that experience, personally or in business.

Well I have. As someone who receives international packages all the time I have had to pay a number of times this way with FedEx. As I noted, it has been a mix of asking for payment when they are here to deliver and sending an invoice later. I currently have an invoice from UPS for the boXem amp i just reviewed. The tariff is only 10 cents, yes 10 cents, but they added $14 processing fee and such. I am assuming boXem paid the tariff already but somehow the amount was short 10 cents.

As to your corporate experience, that is different. When I imported Klippel NFS, I had to hire an agency to handle the import. They made me fill out these lengthy Customs forms and giving power of attorney to them to handle the import and be the bond holder. That is customs trusts them to hold the bag if i don't. Without this, the package would have likely gotten stuck in customs forever due to its very high dollar amount (this, despite the fact that there was no duty on it!). You should go and talk to your finance person and likely they will explain the steps they have taken to handle import fees and processes.

 

[Timcognito]

Do you plan to change prices to get more business in the US? Curious as the latest ASR review was outstanding.

Sorry I should have not linked my question to the implementation debate. Just wanted the business perspective.

 

[levimax]

Standard economic theory? Please. Tell me which economic books say this.

The stock market is by far not a good indicator of the economy.

I’m afraid your studies of economics have not been very helpful.

Again inflation is a measure of overall price level not a subset of prices affected by a policy change or other external shock. When the price of one thing is changed quickly (imported good due to policy change) there will be adjustments and substitutions and some prices will be higher and some lower and some winners and some losers but overall it is not inflationary by its self. Of course reactions by the government / monetary authorities could cause tariffs to be either inflationary or deflationary.

Predicting the future is not possible so argueing which indicator is better from a list of poor predictors is kind of a waste of time but the stock market is as good as any.

 

[a4eaudio]

...But this idea that taxes are all the same is really strange to me. ...

It is strange to you because it is wrong.

About 10 years ago, I tongue in cheek proposed we go to a flat income tax. Not a flat rate, but a flat tax...

Yes, this often deferred to as a head tax. The most famous proponent of something like this was Henry George in 1879. There are lots of reasons no country has ever adopted something similar.

(There are also reasons why countries haven't tended to have exorbitant tariffs after the Smoot-Hawley Act of 1930 and the Great Depression.)

 

[pablolie]

Do you plan to change prices to get more business in the US? Curious as the latest ASR review was outstanding.

I thought Buckeye Amps was based in the USA? Clearly in technology you have to import many of your components.

 

[a4eaudio]

...but the stock market is as good as any.

But...this is factually false.

 

[pablolie]

.... You should go and talk to your finance person and likely they will explain the steps they have taken to handle import fees and processes.

Easy, they give me a corporate credit card. The forms are all filled by our shipping department.

 

[amirm]

The thread is getting heated, likely because I am fueling some of it as well. Let's dial it down some and not cause hurt feelings. Otherwise, I will probably close it later and ahve OP let me know when he has made some progress.

 

[Timcognito]

I thought Buckeye Amps was based in the USA? Clearly in technology you have to import many of your components.

Yeah they are just assumed OUS as the debate seemed so intense. As they say assume makes an ass out of you and me. Just me this time.

 

[Cbdb2]

Rules on the import of Russian pipeline natural gas are driving many industries in the EU out of business or to relocate to the U.S. and have raised electricity prices for EU countries and the UK to exorbitant levels. German has been in recession for two years due to increased energy costs and soon will be a very different country economically.

When Nordstream blew up, Germany had to replace cheap, clean (relatively) natural gas with fracked US gas transported by ship that cost twice as much. I heard that this caused the German GDP to drop 5% as the US pulled in billions.

 

[pablolie]

Yeah they are just assumed OUS as the debate seemed so intense. As they say assume makes an ass out of you and me. Just me this time.

I have zero reason to assume @Buckeye Amps wasn't truthful about their experience with import taxes - never remotely implied that. I just said that -like Italian bicycle import poster- my experience with shipping companies was different.

I know the company I work for stockpiled a *lot* of components manufactured in countries like South Korea, Taiwan, China etc when the tariff threats (among countries) started to escalate, in order to avoid having to hike prices (which in the end happened, too, but not by much, I think it was a 5% average across the board - storage facilities when stock-piling aren't free I guess :-D).

 

[Groove01]

Hold on, weren't you the one responding to me first? Shouldn't I be asking you: can we be done?

I apologize for trying to have a conversation with substance, your BS in Economics degree is very impressive, the way how you eluded arguments that you started, quite impeccable in fact.

Yes, I started it by saying I thought you were being pedantic. Apparently I hit a nerve.

Let’s break it down:

You said Americans are stupid and can’t possible understand the basic global supply chain and that most inputs are made overseas.

1. I responded saying most of the “enlightened” think they understand economic theory, but most really don’t.

2. You asked me to prove it, asking what do the “enlightened have wrong”

3. In response, I asked you to provide an explanation on the causes of inflation followed by possible corrective measures to contain/lower inflation and the associated impacts of those corrective measures - no chatGPT allowed.

I’m still waiting on that explanation..

I feel content my point has objectively been sufficiently demonstrated. Not sure where else to go honestly.

 

[Luvchampagne]

Are you a lawyer? I asked a lawyer friend, and she stated the potential additional import taxes MUST be VERY CLEARLY stated in the original order. She recommends sellers should add a box that buyers should check to confirm they are aware of additional charges. If not, the original order must be fulfilled on all terms because it it a legally binding sales contract - both in the US and every EU country.

I'm a lawyer and represent many international and foreign companies. Again. You and your lawyer are wrong. Clearly she has not done any cross border transactions involving 3rd parties.
What she is referring to is a different fact pattern.
Foreign company sells to US company. Contract states that all taxes and TARIFFS are the responsibility of the Seller.
That is not the case with almost all consumer transactions. Hence the burden is on you absent a written contract with the Seller which explicitly states that the Seller is responsible for all Tariffs.
Ask any importer friend what they're thinking and doing. This is why you read all the articles of companies stashing goods in special warehouses that are tariff exempt until goods are removed.
These companies would rather pay an expensive warehousing fee than pay the large tariff.
You think that your purchasing terms and conditions are superior to these companies?

Last but not least, what is your recourse? Sue in court? Let's say you win by default. How do you collect against a foreign company for your judgment?
You lose lose and lose.
You're just throwing a tantrum now.

 

[Cbdb2]

Nothing significant happens at 2008.

So the bottom 50% going from 3% in 2008 to 1% in 2010 is nothing?

 

[Peterinvan]

If I could get a reliable 7.5% ROI on other investments I would not be forced to put my savings in the Stock Market.

It has become a big casino for most with the biggest winners being the big houses with the best savants designing software to trade momentum several time a second.

I do not consider it a good indicator of the economy, since investors are more likely to be gambling than giving productive companies the capital they need to grow.

I see crypto as an even bigger casino. It takes capital out of the market that should have been invested in growth of the economy.

 

[pablolie]

...
That is not the case with almost all consumer transactions. Hence the burden is on you absent a written contract with the Seller which explicitly states that the Seller is responsible for all Tariffs.

Never disputed that. All I said is not explicitly stating that in the sales contract is (1) 100% misleading and (2) may impact a foreign company's ability to conduct business in the US if they have litigation going on because of consumer complaints (ongoing litigation in court) due to potentially having violated pertinent consumer protection laws. If you are a lawyer you know nothing prevents you from suing a foreign company in a US court.

Not warning someone an additional 35% bill is coming their way is probably not a best business practice, we can hopefully agree.

Ask any importer friend what they're thinking and doing. This is why you read all the articles of companies stashing goods in special warehouses that are tariff exempt until goods are removed.

I just mentioned that in my latest post.

You're just throwing a tantrum now.

I have followed you in another thread. No tantrum here at any point. Unlike you, I haven't thrown insults around.