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$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

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Duke

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First, a bit about the speaker … Top ribbon is a super tweeter, then large horn loaded ribbon is mid range. Going down further is the cardioid/dipole woofer, and then a sealed sub on the bottom. Rear driver is for ambiance that can be activated with Hypex remote. There are three modes in fact … Direct, wide , and wide plus rear driver. Direct narrows the directivity which provides for razor imaging, but small dispersion of course. Wide exactly as it states, wide dispersion. Then there is the wide + rear ambiance driver which sounds very much like an omni. This variable directivity is very slick and can really add to the experience depending upon the type of music you are listening to. When designer first told me about it I thought it seems gimmicky, but it really is very effective. You basically get three speakers in one.

The sound? Simply superb. You all know I have heard a lot of speakers past many months, and these are without doubt overall the best I have heard to date. Really a joyful experience is the best way I can put it. The cardioid just sounds RIGHT. Doesn’t load the room like the bass reflex 590s, which upon initial impression seems like less output, but of course this is exactly the point. After sometime adjusting to the cardioid, I went back to the 590s and wanted to get back to the cardioid ASAP! The speed and again realness of the cardioid response is really quite remarkable. Of course I have experienced this with the Kii and D&D, but these demos are another level. Really, really well done.

As to the rest of the audio spectrum, outstanding. Imaging, resolution, detail, soundstage, dynamic, pick your audiophile subjective term … it’s all there. Yes, I have experienced other speakers that did many things very well, but these seem to do everything very well, I really have no nitpicks whatsoever except one … the rear driver can be a bit harsh. After discussing with designer, turns out he EQed for his room which has heavy drapes behind, mine is mostly hard sheetrock. That is likely the cause, but more investigation is needed. More to come, but i know y’all have been patiently waiting, so figured I better get this out before you showed up at my door with torches and pitchforks.

All the above to say, I believe I have found my end game. Now just need to work with designer to develop a system exactly fitting my needs, going to take more listening and likely a visit to his establishment to listen to additional designs.

So who is this mystery designer? … https://soundfieldaudio.net/
VERY INTERESTING!!

Well done, Sound Field Audio! Tipping my virtual hat to you AJ, hoping you see this.
 
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Newman

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Newman said:
FWIW I think @MKR is making a big mistake with the strong weighting he is putting on the soundstage of each speaker he auditions. This is chasing a ghost that is going to evaporate when he gets them home, except by pure chance. On a related point, the dipole mid in the Aeris is going to be a room-dependent nightmare, especially.

cheers
Completely disagree with above statements. Wide dispersion capability is not a ghost. On the Aeris, the dipole has EQ via the Wavelet (or Trinnov :D), so certainly not a nightmare (but without the EQ, you are correct it would indeed be problematic)
Let me expand on my point. My point is about soundstage perceptions when auditioning a speaker away from home. I don't believe they are transferable between where the audition happened and home. (Unless, of course, every audition was held in a replica of your home room and seat position. I'm pretty sure that isn't happening.)

Why so? Well, if you put two speakers in a perfect anechoic chamber, the soundstage is basically strung out in a line between (and including) the speakers. It will be very similar between (good) speakers and almost entirely created by the mix. Speakers with issues like diffraction off baffle edges or drivers side-by-side instead of vertically aligned, could interfere with it, but that's about it. BTW most people don't care much for this non-reflecting soundstage and consider it 'spatially deprived'.

But once you move the speakers into a normal room, *now* the speakers all get their unique qualities of soundstage, because 95% of the soundstaging cues are a result of exactly how the speaker and room are interacting, and summing at the specific listening position. Great, you say, I already knew that. But the interaction is so strongly dependent on exactly where they stand regarding distances to walls, reflectivity of walls at first reflection point, and width of room, that you can't think of it as transferable between rooms. And a speaker that you like better for soundstaging in one room, you might like worse in a different room, or even in a different position in the same room. Even the preference for speaker A over B in one room, might be reversed in a different room or listening position.

So you might audition a few speakers and have these really clear perceptions on their soundstage properties and your ranking of them, but they could each deliver such different soundstages in your home that you don't even recognise what you heard in audition, nor have the same ranking.

Same goes for depth cues. As Floyd Toole wrote, "The sense of depth is very imprecise, but most of the evidence points to a proportion between the direct sound and delayed reflections and reverberation."

That's why I said it is, "a ghost that is going to evaporate when he gets them home, except by pure chance". I don't advise putting much weighting on it, when shortlisting or eliminating speakers.

cheers
 
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MKR

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VERY INTERESTING!!

Well done, Sound Field Audio! Tipping virtual hat to you AJ, hoping you see this.
Very kind of you Duke, class act as always :)
 
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VERY INTERESTING!!

Well done, Sound Field Audio! Tipping virtual hat to you AJ, hoping you see this.
Very interesting. Wish I had known about this company 6 months ago. Arg. I feel like they are doing everything right in terms of customization and it ticks a lot of the boxes for speakers that do everything you want and nothing you don’t. The cost is not bad for what you’re getting. Impressive. He does need a better website! Doesn’t seem to do the product justice.
 
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MKR

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Let me expand on my point. My point is about soundstage perceptions when auditioning a speaker away from home. I don't believe they are transferable between where the audition happened and home. (Unless, of course, every audition was held in a replica of your home room and seat position. I'm pretty sure that isn't happening.)

Why so? Well, if you put two speakers in a perfect anechoic chamber, the soundstage is basically strung out in a line between (and including) the speakers. It will be very similar between (good) speakers and almost entirely created by the mix. Speakers with issues like diffraction off baffle edges or drivers side-by-side instead of vertically aligned, could interfere with it, but that's about it. BTW most people don't care much for this non-reflecting soundstage and consider it 'spatially deprived'.

But once you move the speakers into a normal room, *now* the speakers all get their unique qualities of soundstage, because 95% of the soundstaging cues are a result of exactly how the speaker and room are interacting, and summing at the specific listening position. Great, you say, I already knew that. But the interaction is so strongly dependent on exactly where they stand regarding distances to walls, reflectivity of walls at first reflection point, and width of room, that you can't think of it as transferable between rooms. And a speaker that you like better for soundstaging in one room, you might like worse in a different room, or even in a different position in the same room. Even the preference for speaker A over B in one room, might be reversed in a different room or listening position.

So you might audition a few speakers and have these really clear perceptions on their soundstage properties and your ranking of them, but they could each deliver such different soundstages in your home that you don't even recognise what you heard in audition, nor have the same ranking.

Same goes for depth cues. As Floyd Toole wrote, "The sense of depth is very imprecise, but most of the evidence points to a proportion between the direct sound and delayed reflections and reverberation."

That's why I said it is, "a ghost that is going to evaporate when he gets them home, except by pure chance". I don't advise putting much weighting on it, when shortlisting or eliminating speakers.

cheers
Understood and well said. Let me state it differently … I am referring to dispersion. Some speakers are designed with different dispersion characteristics, regardless of room. This is what I am referring to by ”large” or “small” soundstage. But yes, for sure the sound can absolutely be different depending upon the acoustic space.
 

MattHooper

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To start … Some pics of my 590s and the “mystery” active … And please don’t judge the actives by the looks. These were some “Franken“ speakers as they have affectionatley become known by myself and the designer as he cobbled them together not as a final effort, but as a way that I could audition his design concepts without sending me a finished (and much more expensive) product. Sorry for the poor pic quality, my phone camera stinks.

View attachment 290141

Good Loard !
 

MattHooper

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First, a bit about the speaker … Top ribbon is a super tweeter, then large horn loaded ribbon is mid range. Going down further is the cardioid/dipole woofer, and then a sealed sub on the bottom. Rear driver is for ambiance that can be activated with Hypex remote. There are three modes in fact … Direct, wide , and wide plus rear driver. Direct narrows the directivity which provides for razor imaging, but small dispersion of course. Wide exactly as it states, wide dispersion. Then there is the wide + rear ambiance driver which sounds very much like an omni. This variable directivity is very slick and can really add to the experience depending upon the type of music you are listening to. When designer first told me about it I thought it seems gimmicky, but it really is very effective. You basically get three speakers in one.

The sound? Simply superb. You all know I have heard a lot of speakers past many months, and these are without doubt overall the best I have heard to date. Really a joyful experience is the best way I can put it. The cardioid just sounds RIGHT. Doesn’t load the room like the bass reflex 590s, which upon initial impression seems like less output, but of course this is exactly the point. After sometime adjusting to the cardioid, I went back to the 590s and wanted to get back to the cardioid ASAP! The speed and again realness of the cardioid response is really quite remarkable. Of course I have experienced this with the Kii and D&D, but these demos are another level. Really, really well done.

As to the rest of the audio spectrum, outstanding. Imaging, resolution, detail, soundstage, dynamics, pick your audiophile subjective term … it’s all there. Yes, I have experienced other speakers that did many things very well, but these seem to do everything very well, I really have no nitpicks whatsoever except one … the rear driver can be a bit harsh. After discussing with designer, turns out he EQed for his room which has heavy drapes behind, mine is mostly hard sheetrock. That is likely the cause, but more investigation is needed. More to come, but i know y’all have been patiently waiting, so figured I better get this out before you showed up at my door with torches and pitchforks.

All the above to say, I believe I have found my end game. Now just need to work with designer to develop a system exactly fitting my needs, going to take more listening and likely a visit to his establishment to listen to additional designs.

So who is this mystery designer? … https://soundfieldaudio.net/

Ah....AJ!

An opinionated sort, but apparently a heck of a speaker designer. His set ups get some rave reviews at shows etc. Well done! I'm super happy for you.
I love the idea of the flexibility of the system, especially with remote control. That kind of stuff is right up my alley.

Also there's an extra kick to having a sort of bespoke speaker design all for yourself!
 

MattHooper

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Let me expand on my point. My point is about soundstage perceptions when auditioning a speaker away from home. I don't believe they are transferable between where the audition happened and home. (Unless, of course, every audition was held in a replica of your home room and seat position. I'm pretty sure that isn't happening.)

Why so? Well, if you put two speakers in a perfect anechoic chamber, the soundstage is basically strung out in a line between (and including) the speakers. It will be very similar between (good) speakers and almost entirely created by the mix. Speakers with issues like diffraction off baffle edges or drivers side-by-side instead of vertically aligned, could interfere with it, but that's about it. BTW most people don't care much for this non-reflecting soundstage and consider it 'spatially deprived'.

But once you move the speakers into a normal room, *now* the speakers all get their unique qualities of soundstage, because 95% of the soundstaging cues are a result of exactly how the speaker and room are interacting, and summing at the specific listening position. Great, you say, I already knew that. But the interaction is so strongly dependent on exactly where they stand regarding distances to walls, reflectivity of walls at first reflection point, and width of room, that you can't think of it as transferable between rooms. And a speaker that you like better for soundstaging in one room, you might like worse in a different room, or even in a different position in the same room. Even the preference for speaker A over B in one room, might be reversed in a different room or listening position.

So you might audition a few speakers and have these really clear perceptions on their soundstage properties and your ranking of them, but they could each deliver such different soundstages in your home that you don't even recognise what you heard in audition, nor have the same ranking.

Same goes for depth cues. As Floyd Toole wrote, "The sense of depth is very imprecise, but most of the evidence points to a proportion between the direct sound and delayed reflections and reverberation."

That's why I said it is, "a ghost that is going to evaporate when he gets them home, except by pure chance". I don't advise putting much weighting on it, when shortlisting or eliminating speakers.

cheers

Well, that's a lotta theory. Doesn't really match what I've experienced in practice.

Auditions of speakers in other rooms (e.g. dealers) usually predicts very well what I hear at home, soundstaging/imaging included.
Quads did that special Quad thing. MBL omnis that special omni thing. Audio Physic speakers did their "disappearing" act in my home just like they charmed me in the stores. Thiel speakers did that amazing image focus and density in my home, exactly what I found distinguished them in store auditions, and on and on...

Usually I'm able to have the speakers in an audition set up in a way that matches how I'll have them at home - same distance apart, same seating distance. So I usually get a good idea. But even when that hasn't been possible it's easy to hear some speakers "disappear" more easily and float images more readily than others, and that holds up at home.

I know I'll be able to dial them in even better at home, but it's easy to get a good understanding of what you've got to work with from auditioning speakers elsewhere.
 

jhaider

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And a few more pics …

View attachment 290145
As soon as you showed that midrange I knew where it came from…

AJ has put in the work, has good sonic taste, and knows his shit. I still keep around a pair of Soundfield Audio Monitor 1s (semi-active large standmount with KEF Q100 coax on top and TangBand 8” woofer in powered closed box) I bought from @Randy Bessinger about a decade ago. Every time I think about selling them I pull them out first, listen…and find a place to use them.
 
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AudioJester

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Amazing speaker design @MKR and AJ.
I have to ask - any measurements?

They actualky look smaller than the JBL considering the tech and drivers involved. If I may be so bold - an evolution of Linkwitz designs?

Reading the Sigberg audio thread, to do cardiod bass correctly is no easy task!
 

garyrc

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1685862217980.png

For a review:
 
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Short38

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Looked at the Soundfield audio website. Specs are shown for their products but could not find any measurements. Reviews were listening impressions at shows.
Soundfield could well be the next Wilson or Legacy.

Glad that MKR has arrived at a Final Destination!
 
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MKR

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Amazing speaker design @MKR and AJ.
I have to ask - any measurements?

They actualky look smaller than the JBL considering the tech and drivers involved. If I may be so bold - an evolution of Linkwitz designs?

Reading the Sigberg audio thread, to do cardiod bass correctly is no easy task!
AJ is purely a measurement based designer, so I am sure there are measurements. I will check and get back to you.

They are smaller than the JBLs (which are quite large).

As to an evolution of Linkwitz, I know AJ is a big fan of SL and his designs (as am I ), so maybe an evolution, but you would have to ask AJ directly about that.
 

Adi777

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Hmm, maybe AJ have a speakers also for me?
 
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MKR

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Looked at the Soundfield audio website. Specs are shown for their products but could not find any measurements. Reviews were listening impressions at shows.
Soundfield could well be the next Wilson or Legacy.

Glad that MKR has arrived at a Final Destination!
A web site designer AJ is not. Nor is he widely known in HEA circles, nor does he want to be! And as I stated in another response, he is absolutely an audio objectivist and designs based upon measurements. I am sure if you contacted him directly he would happily answer all of your questions.
 
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