$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[MKR]

See above. If I recall, you were quite impressed the completely untreated D&D room at Axpona, correct?
Was Buchardt there?

Correct, very impressed with D&D. Already I was planning for this upcoming in home demo, but the D&D confirmed I was on the right track. Note I also spent some time with Kii months ago with dealer but was not as impressed as with D&D. As to Buchardt at show, maybe, but did not audition them.

 

[FrankW]

Correct, very impressed with D&D. Already I was planning for this upcoming in home demo, but the D&D confirmed I was on the right track. Note I also spent some time with Kii months ago with dealer but was not as impressed as with D&D. As to Buchardt at show, maybe, but did not audition them.

Hmmm, pretty sure Buchardt makes a "variable directivity" type speaker, at least in the bass, which I believe can be cardioid. But perhaps not the droids we're looking for.

 

[kma100]

I believe they have a Master Tuning for the A700 that does cardioid.

 

[srrxr71]

The air in the room is excited by the speaker drivers and, in a similar (but 3D rather than 2D) way to the string of a stringed instrument, the amplitude of the harmonics excited depend on where in the 3D volume of air the drivers are (and where on the string the player plucks or bows).
On the stringed instrument it has a big influence on timbre, in a room it has a big influence on the amplitude of the peaks, both of the fundamental but also all the harmonics.

By varying the position of the speakers it is possible to alter the amplitude of the peaks and even to even out the sound in the room, a bit like the modal speakers like NXT and BMR types by positioning the exciter.

The most beneficial effects IME are putting the speakers at a position which isn’t a simple ratio of a room dimension. You are a bit stuck with the vertical except playing with stands.
I started with 1/7 of the long dimension and 1/5 of the short. A friend who does this sort of thing for a living used MLSSA (I think that is what it is) to measure locations all over the room to make sure the biggest peaks were as small as we could get them.

Only a very small correction was then needed to be applied by room compensation software and the difference with and without is relatively small laying out the room this way.

The downside for a domestic room is the optimum speaker positions may not meet with universal aesthetic approval…

I wish I had the blank slate.

 

[Spocko]

Correct, very impressed with D&D. Already I was planning for this upcoming in home demo, but the D&D confirmed I was on the right track. Note I also spent some time with Kii months ago with dealer but was not as impressed as with D&D. As to Buchardt at show, maybe, but did not audition them.

I also love the flexibility and built in DAC, amplifier, DSP, etc.

 

[symphara]

I also love the flexibility and built in DAC, amplifier, DSP,

Is it usable for HT? Does it have a fixed volume mode, so it can be controlled by the AVR?

The speakers look great (sans the ugly D&D stands) but really limited in terms of connectivity.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I wish I had the blank slate.

We built an extension to gain an extra bedroom and bathroom so I claimed the room underneath for the stereo system.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Is it usable for HT? Does it have a fixed volume mode, so it can be controlled by the AVR?

The speakers look great (sans the ugly D&D stands) but really limited in terms of connectivity.

My feeling too.
I never liked streaming music and I do it so infrequently now I cancelled my Qobuz subscription, I was only using it to listen to a newly issued recording to decide whether to buy the CD!

The D&D is in many ways a perfect speaker for me except I don't wish a computer to have anything to do with my day to day music listening any more, so as a speaker it is ideal but as a day to day music enjoying adjunct to my like no use.
I learned this from Devialet Phantom, theoretically perfect in many ways but I never use them any more because of the interface.

 

[Purité Audio]

You can use the 8Cs just like a traditional active loudspeaker, usually I recommend the RME ‘pro’ for users who have multiple sources both digital and analogue, once the speakers parameters have been set and any filters implemented now with REW integration, then you never need to connect them to the network again.
Keith

 

[symphara]

My feeling too.
I never liked streaming music and I do it so infrequently now I cancelled my Qobuz subscription, I was only using it to listen to a newly issued recording to decide whether to buy the CD!

The D&D is in many ways a perfect speaker for me except I don't wish a computer to have anything to do with my day to day music listening any more, so as a speaker it is ideal but as a day to day music enjoying adjunct to my like no use.
I learned this from Devialet Phantom, theoretically perfect in many ways but I never use them any more because of the interface.

I don't know if @MKR is planning HT integration for his shiny new $30k speakers but, to me, this is where actives fall over themselves. Not even the LS60, which is a lifestyle product with the most features and inputs available in this segment, cannot be configured to use a set volume on the analog input, which would make it possible to hook them to an AV receiver's pre-outs.

Actives seem to be for professionals or people who want nothing else but music playback from as few sources as possible.

 

[Martijn Mensink]

I don't know if @MKR is planning HT integration for his shiny new $30k speakers but, to me, this is where actives fall over themselves. Not even the LS60, which is a lifestyle product with the most features and inputs available in this segment, cannot be configured to use a set volume on the analog input, which would make it possible to hook them to an AV receiver's pre-outs.

Actives seem to be for professionals or people who want nothing else but music playback from as few sources as possible.

Setting a fixed volume for the analog input is indeed a useful feature. The 8c currently doesn't have it. Customers have complained about this. The good news is, that the 8c has a full-blown Linux computer on board. This enables us to keep improving the 8c, and to keep adding functionality. We've taken user requests to heart. A new firmware release that supports an external volume (Ext) control is imminent.

EDIT: fixed typo

 

[FrantzM]

I don't know if @MKR is planning HT integration for his shiny new $30k speakers but, to me, this is where actives fall over themselves. Not even the LS60, which is a lifestyle product with the most features and inputs available in this segment, cannot be configured to use a set volume on the analog input, which would make it possible to hook them to an AV receiver's pre-outs.

Hi

My humble JBL LSR308 and LSR305 active speakers are controlled by my humble Denon AVR-X3400H with no issues. I wonder about the delay that a speaker such as the 8C would introduce however. I know for a fact that the Devialet introduces a non-negligeable delay due to their procesing. They even have a version for HT that is somewhat different and do away with the processing ...

Back to @MKR thread.

Peace.

 

[MKR]

I don't know if @MKR is planning HT integration for his shiny new $30k speakers but, to me, this is where actives fall over themselves. Not even the LS60, which is a lifestyle product with the most features and inputs available in this segment, cannot be configured to use a set volume on the analog input, which would make it possible to hook them to an AV receiver's pre-outs.

Actives seem to be for professionals or people who want nothing else but music playback from as few sources as possible.

This was indeed one of my initial concerns with actives, and caused me to not consider them. However, i also know that actives are used in many HT and multi-chan setups, so obviously there is a way to do it, I just haven’t researched it much yet

 

[Frank Dernie]

I don't know if @MKR is planning HT integration for his shiny new $30k speakers but, to me, this is where actives fall over themselves. Not even the LS60, which is a lifestyle product with the most features and inputs available in this segment, cannot be configured to use a set volume on the analog input, which would make it possible to hook them to an AV receiver's pre-outs.

Actives seem to be for professionals or people who want nothing else but music playback from as few sources as possible.

I have a simple addition of a centre and 2 rear channels for if I watch a film, which is rare, which I could listen to multi channel music on too, which I haven’t persisted with.
They were all Meridian M33 actives connected to the Marantz thingy I have for films.
I recently changed the centre speaker to a Genelec 8341 to see what all the fuss is about and have simply connected to its analogue input and it works fine.

 

[srrxr71]

I have a simple addition of a centre and 2 rear channels for if I watch a film, which is rare, which I could listen to multi channel music on too, which I haven’t persisted with.
They were all Meridian M33 actives connected to the Marantz thingy I have for films.
I recently changed the centre speaker to a Genelec 8341 to see what all the fuss is about and have simply connected to its analogue input and it works fine.

I have a pair of 8341s and I thought of maybe making one a center and the other a sort of rear center. It’s not not ideal but I don’t want to buy another 8341.

It’s just something to test out easily and cheaply one day since I have those items. It won’t amount to more than a tech demo for me.

 

[Bugal1998]

I have a pair of 8341s and I thought of maybe making one a center and the other a sort of rear center. It’s not not ideal but I don’t want to buy another 8341.

It’s just something to test out easily and cheaply one day since I have those items. It won’t amount to more than a tech demo for me.

You may try skipping the rear and center positions and use the 8341s as left and right side surrounds. Put them at the 80-85 degree and 275-280 degree positions (i.e. put them 5-10 degrees ahead of your ears). I suspect you'll find that offers more envelopment than the the other option you're contemplating. Counterintuitively, in my testing it's also more enveloping than having side surrounds at or slightly behind your ears; I later saw that industry testing had reached similar conclusions.

 

[srrxr71]

You may try skipping the rear and center positions and use the 8341s as left and right side surrounds. Put them at the 80-85 degree and 275-280 degree positions (i.e. put them 5-10 degrees ahead of your ears). I suspect you'll find that offers more envelopment than the the other option you're contemplating. Counterintuitively, in my testing it's also more enveloping than having side surrounds at or slightly behind your ears; I later saw that industry testing had reached similar conclusions.

And basically send them a left and right signal? Perhaps attenuated a bit?

 

[Bugal1998]

And basically send them a left and right signal? Perhaps attenuated a bit?

No, a surround signal (essentially a 5 channel surround setup with no center channel). I may have incorrectly assumed you had some form of surround processing capability that was supporting your experiment.

 

[srrxr71]

No, a surround signal (essentially a 5 channel surround setup with no center channel). I may have incorrectly assumed you had some form of surround processing capability that was supporting your experiment.

No but I would have to acquire something. Okay so I could derive a L-R signal in software and supply that.

 

[hwest]

For the passive list there is also the Revel 328Be, fits right between the 228Be and the Salon 2.

Revel PerformaBe F328Be (High-Gloss Walnut)

Floor-standing speaker

www.crutchfield.com

I love Revel's also B&W.