$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[AudioJester]

Look here for physical solutions for Roon.

rooExtend - Home

This rooExtend DIY page offers useful plug and play extensions for the music server Roon based on a Raspberry PI. They complement Roon in the areas of audio input, control and playback.

rooextend.com

Have not tried it myself as my Okto controls volume but I think DrCWO is a member here

 

[benanders]

There is only one tactile image and it’s right in front.

Good, but that’s not the tactile element I meant. Literal, not figurative.
“Clean” sound coming from limited driver surface area (e.g. active studio monitors) will probably fail to produce strong tactile sensation to everything outside the inner ears, which would leave listeners comparing their experiences to live performances want for a significant element in the overall concert experience - moving air. Especially American rock concerts.

If SPL offers progressively diminishing returns as we perceive it (and it does), it makes me wonder if very “clean” transmission of sound as you put it @srrxr71 - little to no perceptible distortion and optimal sonic “imaging” - by speakers causes (some of) us to seek volume levels we otherwise might not.

That seems like work major funding institutions would be interested in. I haven’t done a pubs search on it, but seems especially relevant to headphones and active speakers: culprits of stereotypically (pun! ) producing very high fidelity.

Some physicians really dislike earphones because of client tendency to up the volume without recognizing how loudly they’re operating; based on the Genelec analogy (giant headphones), are good active speakers actually… bad… in this regard?

Hopefully those queries don’t come off as irrelevant given the present focus on active speaker volume control.
Edit: removed a redundant line - written quickly over two short breaks…

 

[srrxr71]

Good, but that’s not the tactile element I meant. Literal, not figurative.
“Clean” sound coming from limited driver surface area (e.g. active studio monitors) will probably fail to produce strong tactile sensation to everything outside the inner ears, which would leave listeners comparing their experiences to live performances want for a significant element in the overall concert experience - moving air. Especially American rock concerts.

If SPL offers progressively diminishing returns as we perceive it (and it does), it makes me wonder if very “clean” transmission of sound as you put it @srrxr71 - little to no perceptible distortion and optimal sonic “imaging” - by speakers causes (some of) us to seek volume levels we otherwise might not.

That seems like work major funding institutions would be interested in. I haven’t done a pubs search on it, but seems especially relevant to headphones and active speakers: culprits of stereotypically (pun! ) producing very high fidelity.

Some physicians really dislike earphones because of client tendency to up the volume without recognizing how loudly they’re operating; based on the Genelec analogy (giant headphones), are good active speakers actually… bad… in this regard?

Hopefully those queries don’t come off as irrelevant given the present focus on active speaker volume control.
Edit: removed a redundant line - written quickly over two short breaks…

I mean bass is nice and some days I listen to music that has a lot of bass. Especially when I first got the setup.

However I have had situations where the mid/tweeter is the limit when a certain female vocal comes on. Sometimes even on a Lionel Richie song.

However you have made me more cognizant of the damage potential. So i’m more aware and any time it gets to be at level that may border on painful or damaging I just turn it down.

However some songs make the need for SPL real.

 

[Deleted member 57150]

I find the inverse to be true also. Because the fidelity is so high and every detail is there, I dont need to crank monitors as much or IEMs. I can play low levels and still hear the scene.

 

[OdysseusG]

Regarding digital volume control, the MiniDSP SHDs should work just fine. I got the regular instead of the Studio just in case I wanted to switched things up down the road in my secondary system.
My primary system also has a digital volume control, though I don't usually think about it that way: DEQX. I use the digital outs into a stack of M500s that I'll eventually get around to swapping out with my Okto. OP is curiously sub averse but the Pre-4 looks awesome for his use case if he ever gets more sub curious.
I'm sure there's a plethora of Pro solutions that more likely than not lack good remote controls and are varying degrees of aesthetically challenged. The former's a bigger stumbling block for me than the latter.

 

[MKR]

Sooo, time to let the cat out of the bag a bit … I have been in discussions with a VERY knowledgeable and science/measurement based speaker designer now for several months (he has been incredibly gracious answering my many, many questions, sometimes very stupid questions I have no doubt) about my preferences, listening impressions, his design philosophy, etc. Ultimately, he very kindly offered to ship a pair of demo speakers to me to try out! They should arrive in about one week.

The design is fully active, variable/controlled directivity, cardioid down to about 20Hz. Should be interesting

Will post my impressions after I have had some listening time

Correction, these are cardioid down to about 40Hz (though they do still hit about 20Hz), below which not needed as low freq is mostly non-directional.

 

[MKR]

Are we there yet (from back seat)?

Just 1 more hour, be patient, we are almost there (as I always told my kids when we were on road trips and we had several hours left to go). Repeat same thing about every hour when they ask until you arrive, seemed to satisfy them

 

[MKR]

The Kii ‘control’, which is hard wired but some functions can be controlled by another remote for example the Apple is a £1600 additional option.
Keith

Not a fan of that dopey Kii control … who thinks a wired control is a good idea for home use? It ain’t, these were designed for studios

 

[MKR]

Regarding digital volume control, the MiniDSP SHDs should work just fine. I got the regular instead of the Studio just in case I wanted to switched things up down the road in my secondary system.
My primary system also has a digital volume control, though I don't usually think about it that way: DEQX. I use the digital outs into a stack of M500s that I'll eventually get around to swapping out with my Okto. OP is curiously sub averse but the Pre-4 looks awesome for his use case if he ever gets more sub curious.
I'm sure there's a plethora of Pro solutions that more likely than not lack good remote controls and are varying degrees of aesthetically challenged. The former's a bigger stumbling block for me than the latter.

To be clear, I am averse to stand alone multi subs above 40Hz or so. For certain I will have subs crossed at about 40 for home theater use.

 

[FrantzM]

To be clear, I am averse to stand alone multi subs above 40Hz or so. For certain I will have subs crossed at about 40 for home theater use.

Why?

Peace

 

[MKR]

Why?

Peace

Simple, no need, and multi sub approach overrated. Full range cardioid mains, this is the way

 

[mglobe]

Look here for physical solutions for Roon.

rooExtend - Home

This rooExtend DIY page offers useful plug and play extensions for the music server Roon based on a Raspberry PI. They complement Roon in the areas of audio input, control and playback.

rooextend.com

Have not tried it myself as my Okto controls volume but I think DrCWO is a member here

I use the MS Surface Dial via DrCWO’s rooextend/roodial setup. Works really well with Roon. There’s a way to use the Dial with the MiniDSP SHD that I think does not require Roon.

 

[srrxr71]

Simple, no need, and multi sub approach overrated. Full range cardioid mains, this is the way

I agree. I don’t care if it’s smooth bass around the room. I only care about my listening position.

 

[srrxr71]

I use the MS Surface Dial via DrCWO’s rooextend/roodial setup. Works really well with Roon. There’s a way to use the Dial with the MiniDSP SHD that I think does not require Roon.

Ahh yeah that’s helpful. I’ll look into it. I’m okay with wired for now as I run an extension and run that cabling under a rug. But true Wireless is better.

 

[mglobe]

Ahh yeah that’s helpful. I’ll look into it. I’m okay with wired for now as I run an extension and run that cabling under a rug. But true Wireless is better.

It's really nice. I've had some issues with the Rpi Zero falling off my network that I seem to have resolved, but I'm about to upgrade my DIY rooextend box to Rpi4 and hopefully that will solve that problem. DrCWO is super responsive to users. Can't say enough good things.

 

[benanders]

Simple, no need, and multi sub approach overrated. Full range cardioid mains, this is the way

For sake of clarity at this point of your thread: the way that first statement might generally hold, is if the second sentence is applied.

No subs employed means no maximum sonic range, full stop; no subs during initial trials means purest impressions developed without irreversible bias endorsed. Good deal!!

 

[benanders]

It's really nice. I've had some issues with the Rpi Zero falling off my network that I seem to have resolved, but I'm about to upgrade my DIY rooextend box to Rpi4 and hopefully that will solve that problem. DrCWO is super responsive to users. Can't say enough good things.

I’m trying to recall if this constitutes first mention of RPi on this thread. I took the plunge 2-3 months ago. Diverse approaches possible. 3b+ that I had as a back-up board for non-audio stuff recommended by a friend. Now doing well connected (to DAC…) with Ethernet. Technically wired not wireless, but could easily be wireless if I didn’t have to concern myself with local 5G issues.
Disclaimer per my last statement: I’m not active at the moment (I’m sittin’ on the couch, but my speakers aren’t active at the moment, either, to be clear). I’ve tried powered and “semi-active” approaches but, in all cases, I’ve been too skittish to try digital control of volume (through transport apps).

#first_gen_tech_heebiejeebies, if ya will.

 

[olegtern]

Еще 1 час, наберитесь терпения, мы почти у цели (как я всегда говорил своим детям, когда мы были в дороге, и у нас оставалось еще несколько часов). Повторяйте одно и то же каждый час, когда они спрашивают, пока вы не придете, кажется, они удовлетворили их.:п

 

[benanders]

To be clear, I am averse to stand alone multi subs above 40Hz or so. For certain I will have subs crossed at about 40 for home theater use.

You really ARE making sure the chosen speaker makes good on functional full-range flex. Fun stuff.

 

[MKR]

You really ARE making sure the chosen speaker makes good on functional full-range flex. Fun stuff.

Yes sir!