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$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

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benanders

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But what really can be done if you are not at least somewhat between the 2 line arrays? That seems like geometry problem that no design can solve.

Software for this conundrum has been developed, but it can’t turn a 3-dimensional debacle endemic to stereo into a 2-dimensional solution via EQ, if that makes sense.
So a geometric problem for sure. But I’d hold that speakers of any kind are not designed to solve problems, per se. They’re (ideally) designed to optimize a given costs/benefits performance relationship based on their purpose.

It may seem like I’m arguing nuances of meanings, but think of it this way: your own speakers ( @srrxr71 ) are notoriously successful at turning a seat into a pair of “megacephalophones”. Line arrays ideally try to do the opposite. :D
 

AudioJester

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@MKR Not sure if you have seen/heard the Wisdom Audio line arrays. Has a lot of the attributes that you are after, I personally thought they were better than the D&D 8c. Allthough the 8c Studio is the best value for money.
 

srrxr71

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Software for this conundrum has been developed, but it can’t turn a 3-dimensional debacle endemic to stereo into a 2-dimensional solution via EQ, if that makes sense.
So a geometric problem for sure. But I’d hold that speakers of any kind are not designed to solve problems, per se. They’re (ideally) designed to optimize a given costs/benefits performance relationship based on their purpose.

It may seem like I’m arguing nuances of meanings, but think of it this way: your own speakers ( @srrxr71 ) are notoriously successful at turning a seat into a pair of “megacephalophones”. Line arrays ideally try to do the opposite. :D
Absolutely. You said try to do. That’s a part of the problem but also inverse square law is huge part of the problem.

So let’s say even if feed these line arrays a mono signal it’s still not going to be fun to be directly in front of one of them.

This is going to be an unsolvable problem for large audiences i suppose. I suppose we will just have to live with what is possible for such venues and accept the compromises.

For small audiences perhaps we can beam form to each individual.

The craziest PA system I’ve ever heard was the one they installed in Las Vegas for Beatles - Love by Cirque du Soleil.

That place must have had 5000-10000 transducers easily. Each seat had maybe 3. One behind each ear and sub under the seat. Maybe 5? With a quad pattern on the headrest? I don’t remember but it was impressive.

This is on top of all the other PA speakers they had.

Still can I say what I heard in my seat is close what somebody heard 3 seats over?

The megacephalophones setup for me is just great. It’s the same setup the mixing engineer used.

When it comes to line arrays I’ve only heard them outdoors I don’t think I’ve yet heard one indoors. So indoors it gets to another level of complexity unless the indoors is an anechoic chamber.

Who knows someone hears near the wall or away from the wall?

I was looking at some Bose line arrays and they actually have inserts which can vary the horizontal dispersion between 50-120 degrees. So maybe the 50 degree insert will make them also megacephalophones as well.

If I had to put line arrays near a wall I’d probably deploy those. And maybe keep a pair closer to the center (but far enough from each other) with a wider horizontal dispersion.

But then again I really have no idea how all that stuff works. However it seems the PA side of this industry is in the middle of a renaissance as well. People are going crazy over some new Danleys and some other new ones that just came out.

They seem to be learning and improving too.
 

D!sco

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I know I would distribute the array instead of clumping them. The Constant Beamwidth Transducer is based on sonar bubbles which don’t interfere with one another. Line arrays have elements of this, but only work at enough distance. CBTs are limited to the central driver’s maximum SPL. I keep thinking about a central horn system that widens across the audience’s listening zone. Multiple drivers, separated horn walls and throats modeled to flow out homogeneously. It gets way more complicated in 3D. Or you can design the whole fucking stage and behind like a folded horn. That’s the biggest nightmare idea I’ve had.
 

srrxr71

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I know I would distribute the array instead of clumping them. The Constant Beamwidth Transducer is based on sonar bubbles which don’t interfere with one another. Line arrays have elements of this, but only work at enough distance. CBTs are limited to the central driver’s maximum SPL. I keep thinking about a central horn system that widens across the audience’s listening zone. Multiple drivers, separated horn walls and throats modeled to flow out homogeneously. It gets way more complicated in 3D. Or you can design the whole fucking stage and behind like a folded horn. That’s the biggest nightmare idea I’ve had.
If want to talk about insane ideas I had one where the horn would be built underground and the entire audience area is the mouth of a folded horn. Yeah totally insane. It would be sort of a mesh floor.

I had one where an entire adjacent room would house a folded horn. When I had it I lived in a country where residential construction is all concrete so the horn could also be made of concrete.

Whoever introduced me to the concept of a folded horn really put some insane thoughts in my head.
 
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MKR

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Let me guess. JBL. M2? Glad you decided on active. Passives have no real place in this day and age imho.
Likely no, but I haven’t had a chance to audition them yet (very tough to find), so still a possibility
 
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MKR

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MKR

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@MKR Not sure if you have seen/heard the Wisdom Audio line arrays. Has a lot of the attributes that you are after, I personally thought they were better than the D&D 8c. Allthough the 8c Studio is the best value for money.
Folks keep bringing up Wisdom, never really considered them. Actually I thought they were out of business. Heard a $1M Wisdom system at CES many years ago and it was superb, no doubt about it. Of course it should be for that kind of cash :p

Not sure what they cost now, but I am sure we’ll above my budget. Anyway, will take a look
 

Lsc

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MKR, I gotta thank you for accelerating my timeline on getting my Gothams. I was looking into maybe going with the Bowers and Wilkins 802D4 but after yours and other feedback I received, I channeled my focus on getting new subs. So I sold my SVS PB16 and as I mentioned previously, I got the Gotham G213v1 (v2 was too expensive) and it’s been amazing re-listening to everything.

If not for this thread - I could went down the other route.
 

srrxr71

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MKR, I gotta thank you for accelerating my timeline on getting my Gothams. I was looking into maybe going with the Bowers and Wilkins 802D4 but after yours and other feedback I received, I channeled my focus on getting new subs. So I sold my SVS PB16 and as I mentioned previously, I got the Gotham G213v1 (v2 was too expensive) and it’s been amazing re-listening to everything.

If not for this thread - I could went down the other route.
You dodged a big one.

Can I ask what the Gotham does better than the SVS?
 
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Lsc

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You dodged a big one.
I think so all considering since my system now looks like Revel salon2 / voice 2 with Gothams vs Bowers 802D4 / matching center with SVS PB16. Plus lower upgrade cost. Even though the salons are full range, the Gothams make a big difference in both music and movies. I actually listen to music at slightly lower levels since I don’t need Ro crank it up as high to get similar bass performance.
 

bo_knows

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Hello MKR,

Just saw this video on YouTube about the new Meridian active speaker (DSP9) and all I can say is WOW!

Even over YouTube and listening via my Sennheiser HD660S, the demo was very impressive. One of, if not the best I heard. You know that I'm a KEF proponent but if I was doing a two-channel only, this will be my top pick.

 

srrxr71

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I think so all considering since my system now looks like Revel salon2 / voice 2 with Gothams vs Bowers 802D4 / matching center with SVS PB16. Plus lower upgrade cost. Even though the salons are full range, the Gothams make a big difference in both music and movies. I actually listen to music at slightly lower levels since I don’t need Ro crank it up as high to get similar bass performance.
I’m hoping for the same when I add subs to my system. I’m just looking at Rythmik or SVS to save on cost. But I will integrate with a Trinnov.

More satisfaction at lower overall levels.
 
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MKR

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Hello MKR,

Just saw this video on YouTube about the new Meridian active speaker (DSP9) and all I can say is WOW!

Even over YouTube and listening via my Sennheiser HD660S, the demo was very impressive. One of, if not the best I heard. You know that I'm a KEF proponent but if I was doing a two-channel only, this will be my top pick.

Price?
 

mkt

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Pretty pics, no price either
 

Lsc

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I’m hoping for the same when I add subs to my system. I’m just looking at Rythmik or SVS to save on cost. But I will integrate with a Trinnov.

More satisfaction at lower overall levels.
My personal experience is that SVS is not as good with music. At least the two SVS subs I had/have, the music was good but I heard Rythmik was much better for music.

If the SVS subs, sb13 ultra and pb16 ultra performed well for music, I’d still have the PB16. The SB13 is in my “3rd” system in the basement - it’s good but not amazing good.

Holy crap - Trinnov! That’s a serious processor. I wonder if you hook up equipment that’s less than up to par, the Trinnov will just say “error, please try again with a better component” :)
 
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srrxr71

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My personal experience is that SVS is not as good with music. At least the two SVS subs I had/have, the music was good but I heard Rythmik was much better for music.

If the SVS subs, sb13 ultra and pb16 ultra performed well for music, I’d still have the PB16. The SB13 is in my “3rd” system in the basement - it’s good but not amazing good.
Thank you for that.

I think I will stick with Rhthmik. It seems just from my perception of their websites that SVS targets more of an HT audience while Rythmik targets audio.

That Rythmik midbass unit is a
nice tell.

I had dreams of making my own speaker system using that midbass and integrating it using a MiniDSP.
 
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