$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[Absolute]

Trinnov hands down. Their support is the stuff of legends.

 

[steve59]

Will we start a new thread on partnering amps or continue this one

 

[MKR]

Will we start a new thread on partnering amps or continue this one

Feel free to keep in this thread if you don’t mind! Unless I end up going active , fully complementary to this thread … maybe we can say “best amps for $30k budget loudspeakers”

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Feel free to keep in this thread if you don’t mind! Unless I end up going active , fully complementary to this thread … maybe we can say “best amps for $30k budget loudspeakers”

There is this new Schiit 5 watter. You should just buy that for Schiit and giggles..

 

[Laserjock]

Or get some Hedd speakers and a Schiit preamp and become a Schiit Hedd…

 

[MattHooper]

@symphara Great question! Indeed I had a very positive impression of the A5, an excellent loudspeaker, they absolutely deserve the accolades. But, compared to others that have remained on my short list (that I have auditioned … Salon 2, Acora, Zellaton, Leagcy, etc), they just did not provide the same level of performance (for MY ears). But again, a well engineered loudspeaker no doubt about it.

The Magico A5 seems to be the bullseye speaker (for Magico) that the smaller A3 was originally anticipated as being. The A3 was the much touted "first affordable Magico speaker" so there were a lot of high hopes. I auditioned the A3 during my speaker search, in what seemed to be a well set up room, and driven by ample solid state amplification. And yet they struck me as detailed but un-involving, a lot of it being they seemed dynamically and palpably "limp" compared to many other speakers including my own.

I may have mentioned this earlier but there is what I think of as 'audiophile bass,' by which I mean that audiophiles are often rejecting the crude exaggerated, one-note bass . Anyone can buy a cheap system with "lots of bass" and goose the bass so you feel it in your chest. But the audiophile wants to hear the exact tonal nature of the bass instrument, no exaggeration, no bloat, no "one-note" quality, and if in the recording it should 'image' independent of the speakers like any other instruments. But sometimes this zeal for utter tight fisted control can produce, at least in some speakers to my ear, a too buttoned-sound sensation. The bass instrument, be it electric bass, stand up or whatever, appears holographically in a spot in the soundstage behind the speakers and sort of "stays there" almost like an object I'm watching in that space, less like one that is projecting it's acoustic force in to the room towards me. It "sits back" dynamically. That's the kind of thing I seemed to experience with the A3 (though, strangely, there was also a bit of bloat in the lowest bass, with deep bass tracks). On very familiar tracks, like Herbie Hancock's Head Hunters album percussion, the synth bass or clavinets just seemed to be less percussive and palpable. Bass lines that normally drove the rhythms in Talk Talk's Colour Of Spring just sounded limpid and too reserved.

Right after I came home from listening to those tracks on the A3 I threw them on my system and, sure enough, that energy and drive were back in that music.

I don't know if the A3s were ever measured. The A5s seem to measure very well and so nothing I know would suggest the "problem" I felt I heard with the A3.

 

[hvbias]

I'm an old studio guy who has heard and used practically everything. Somewhat contra your search, I don't believe there's an endgame - merely several enticing flavors of almost-there. That said, for the last several years I have been really, really enjoying JBL 4367s for leisure listening. I like extreme transparency to the master tape (which I can judge by listening to one of my own) but with a relaxing, at-home-not-work downtilt through the octaves. The 4367s do great, but the Jubilees were just way-more-so ... utterly effortless, with no sensation at all of actual transducers doing anything - just an immense soundstage hanging there in the room. I'm not clear yet whether the (outboard) DSP does FR-shaping as well as crossing over and time alignment, but my perception of the result was smooth and relatively flat, with limitless punch and dynamics. Never any impression of approaching distortion or compression. Short answer, even a cynical old curmudgeon like me was impressed enough to shell out.

I have a question for you with the Jubilee- did they always sound massive? Like even when listening to a single vocalist in an acoustic setting? This is the one thing that kept me from immediately ordering a set and kept me open to Kii 3 BXT or Salon Ultima 2 (I easily preferred the former). Oh and waiting to see what @Bjorn was coming up with

Here is my thread on hearing the Jubilee: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...402-another-controlled-directivity-horn.1120/

I deleted my old Imgur account and switched from Android to Iphone so I will need to find the pictures I took. It was quite amusing, the owner had a very large husky dog and it looked like a newborn puppy when it lay between the speakers.

edit: never mind I rehosted them for an SBAF thread

 

[Mr. Widget]

I have a question for you with the Jubilee- did they always sound massive? Like even when listening to a single vocalist in an acoustic setting?

I had that experience listening to the original Infinity IRS system. EVERYTHING sounds massive. Worked great on full orchestral music, less so with Joni Mitchel and her guitar.

The only way I could ever live with such massive speakers would be with them fully concealed behind an entire wall of grille cloth.

 

[Holmz]

Speaking of bad dealer experiences, I had one that brought up the ethical question: How obliged do you feel to purchase from a dealer who provided a poor auditioning service?

Just about zero.

I've always tried to be conscientious about wasting any dealer's time - I've known a number of them and I feel for how difficult the business can be, especially dealing with tire-kickers or worse, people who use their facilities to audition a speaker with the intention of buying it over the internet cheaper.

I tried lining up a listen months in advance.
The dealer did a phone interview to determine if I was a worthy client, and asked me about my electronics and cables.
And then finally they agreed to let me schedule a visit.
But to wait until it was closer to my trip date.

However, I had this scenario occur:
…
I'm curious about other people's thoughts on these type of scenarios.

Called up on the Saturday and they said, no 11 AM is too early, come back after lunch at 1:45.
I called around 2 said I was running late.

So I get dropped off near the shop, and google maps has me walk 3/4 of a mile…
Called and said I am at the address but where do I go?
They said I was at a location that they were at years ago, and now it was too late.

2 days later (Monday) I find the place and call from the locked door.
They said a listen will cost you $200, and you will need to schedule it in advance.
And that the model I was unterested in was not in stock anyhow.


On a brighter note, a different place I went to at 11 AM was one of the best listening experiences I have had.

 

[hvbias]

I had that experience listening to the original Infinity IRS system. EVERYTHING sounds massive. Worked great on full orchestral music, less so with Joni Mitchel and her guitar.

The only way I could ever live with such massive speakers would be with them fully concealed behind an entire wall of grille cloth.

I only had a single track to judge how they were with classical lieder (piano plus singer) so I could have been wrong.

I was utterly stunned with how they were with symphony music, the several concertos I played you could easily hear the various ways the soloist was mic'd with things such as distance cues, image depth (further instruments in the back rows of an orchestra being softer and fuzzier), tonal realism, the absurd dynamic range (and the microdynamics when small musical passages occur such as strings playing pizzicato), etc.

Still I wish I could have heard more lieder; Hyperion's complete Schubert lieder is always in my heavy rotation in the winter months.

Another observation - when viewing a BD when a car door slams shut it didn't just sound like a reproduction. It felt and sounded as if there was a car door shutting closed in the room. It was bizarre. Even the best home theaters I've heard with subwoofers that make my 2.5 yo look like a baby couldn't do this.

 

[Inner Space]

I have a question for you with the Jubilee- did they always sound massive? Like even when listening to a single vocalist in an acoustic setting?

No, they weren't exaggerated in scale - a single vocalist or instrument was accurately life-sized, but the apparent stereo tableau surrounding it (reverbs, ambience, original room sound etc) was wider and especially taller than I get from the 4367s. Due to the height of the speaker, I assume, and the width - a standard L - R separation of, say, 7 or 8 feet measured inner edge to inner edge puts the acoustic centers 11 or 12 feet apart. In fact the phantom images were very precise, but with extra separation between them, due to the percentage increase in perceived stage size.

 

[hvbias]

No, they weren't exaggerated in scale - a single vocalist or instrument was accurately life-sized, but the apparent stereo tableau surrounding it (reverbs, ambience, original room sound etc) was wider and especially taller than I get from the 4367s. Due to the height of the speaker, I assume, and the width - a standard L - R separation of, say, 7 or 8 feet measured inner edge to inner edge puts the acoustic centers 11 or 12 feet apart. In fact the phantom images were very precise, but with extra separation between them, due to the percentage increase in perceived stage size.

I should have figured my experience with the vocalist was a one off as their directivity is very near ideal.

 

[Laserjock]

I have a question for you with the Jubilee- did they always sound massive? Like even when listening to a single vocalist in an acoustic setting? This is the one thing that kept me from immediately ordering a set and kept me open to Kii 3 BXT or Salon Ultima 2 (I easily preferred the former). Oh and waiting to see what @Bjorn was coming up with

Here is my thread on hearing the Jubilee: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...402-another-controlled-directivity-horn.1120/

I deleted my old Imgur account and switched from Android to Iphone so I will need to find the pictures I took. It was quite amusing, the owner had a very large husky dog and it looked like a newborn puppy when it lay between the speakers.

edit: never mind I rehosted them for an SBAF thread

That’s a beast

 

[Lsc]

I have a question for you with the Jubilee- did they always sound massive? Like even when listening to a single vocalist in an acoustic setting? This is the one thing that kept me from immediately ordering a set and kept me open to Kii 3 BXT or Salon Ultima 2 (I easily preferred the former). Oh and waiting to see what @Bjorn was coming up with

Here is my thread on hearing the Jubilee: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...402-another-controlled-directivity-horn.1120/

I deleted my old Imgur account and switched from Android to Iphone so I will need to find the pictures I took. It was quite amusing, the owner had a very large husky dog and it looked like a newborn puppy when it lay between the speakers.

edit: never mind I rehosted them for an SBAF thread

That’s a monster speaker! Do folks actually use these giant speakers in the family room? I only convinced my wife to have my salons in the family room using risk of damage by kids if they were relegated to my basement rec room. My speakers look a bit out of place, however those Jubilee speakers would take up 1/2 of the room lol.

 

[hvbias]

That’s a monster speaker! Do folks actually use these giant speakers in the family room? I only convinced my wife to have my salons in the family room using risk of damage by kids if they were relegated to my basement rec room. My speakers look a bit out of place, however those Jubilee speakers would take up 1/2 of the room lol.

People do have them in their main or secondary living rooms on the Klipsch forum. This owner had them in the basement. We're planning to move across the country and one thing I'm having in the next house is separate dedicated two channel stereo (massive room, RPG treatments, etc) and HT. Both will be in the basement. But I also want speakers in the two other living rooms where something slim like Kii 3 BXT which are pretty much the same size of your Revel are far more reasonable. Oh and I'll be buried with my ESL57 so those need a room too.

 

[symphara]

@symphara Great question! Indeed I had a very positive impression of the A5, an excellent loudspeaker, they absolutely deserve the accolades. But, compared to others that have remained on my short list (that I have auditioned … Salon 2, Acora, Zellaton, Legacy, etc), they just did not provide the same level of performance (for MY ears). But again, a well engineered loudspeaker no doubt about it.

Interesting. I don't mean anything by this, your initial report was "phenomenal", but you seem cooled off.

The Acoras and Zellatons seem way beyond, price wise, compared to A series Magico.

I'm trying to get the courage to get back into searching new speakers. My daughter, who is little, managed a couple of years ago to get behind the front R - it's on spikes on a granite slab - and pushed it over. It made a dreadful sound, initially I thought the TV came off the wall.

Thankfully just the grill got (completely) destroyed, as the speaker fell on its face, and Triangle was kind to send us another pair of grills. With a polite warning to not ask for more, the speakers are 15 years old...

So anyway I thought I was out of the woods by now until a couple of weeks ago she almost managed it again, this time by falling on it - thankfully my son and I were there to catch it.

Now I would like to hear that A5 but I'm also in some doubts for its safety. Bolt it to the floor, I wonder?

 

[MKR]

Interesting. I don't mean anything by this, your initial report was "phenomenal", but you seem cooled off.

The Acoras and Zellatons seem way beyond, price wise, compared to A series Magico.

I'm trying to get the courage to get back into searching new speakers. My daughter, who is little, managed a couple of years ago to get behind the front R - it's on spikes on a granite slab - and pushed it over. It made a dreadful sound, initially I thought the TV came off the wall.

Thankfully just the grill got (completely) destroyed, as the speaker fell on its face, and Triangle was kind to send us another pair of grills. With a polite warning to not ask for more, the speakers are 15 years old...

So anyway I thought I was out of the woods by now until a couple of weeks ago she almost managed it again, this time by falling on it - thankfully my son and I were there to catch it.

Now I would like to hear that A5 but I'm also in some doubts for its safety. Bolt it to the floor, I wonder?

Not cooled off on the A5s, rather just heard some others later that I liked better, simple as that. Which to my ears did some things better than the A5s. And yes, the Acoras and Zellatons are more expensive, no doubt about it. My comments about “better” were independent of cost. Note I heard the Acoras and A5s at same dealer, same room.

As to speakers and kiddos, the danger is real! It is one thing to damage a speaker, entirely another if a >100lb tower falls on a kiddo! When my kiddos were little, I actually anchored my speakers, I highly recommend you do the same.

Anyway, the A5s are excellent speakers and I think the sweet spot in the Magico lineup. Biggest bang for the buck to be sure. If they are in your budget and you love the sound, go for it, you will be very happy I am sure … My acoustic memory is still enough intact to remember the A5s are very good speakers. They are relatively small speakers vs some of the monster floorstanders you see these days and you would never know that when listening to them. Massive soundstage, very dynamic, incredible low frequency for a sealed design, very precise imaging. Close your eyes and it seems like you are listening to a much larger speaker. Good stuff.

 

[fredoamigo]

So anyway I thought I was out of the woods by now until a couple of weeks ago she almost managed it again, this time by falling on it - thankfully my son and I were there to catch it.

Now I would like to hear that A5 but I'm also in some doubts for its safety. Bolt it to the floor, I wonder?

https://www.provence-outillage.fr/data/images/barriere-protection-76x300cm-werkapro-r-10820.800.jpg
There are protective barriers for stoves and fireplaces in Europe that could prevent your daughter from destroying your speakers or worse, that she gets hurt.

 

[MKR]

So coming back to the room EQ and room treatment topics, including multi sub approach … Been doing a lot of reading on this topic past days and I am starting to lean in a fully different direction. I am sure this will be sacrilege for many here, and that’s ok, we can discuss like adults … but my conclusion is that if a speaker requires EQ and room treatment to sound right, it is a flawed design to begin with. Thoughts?

On the multi sub approach specifically, I am referring especially to a post by our local very large brain (MUCH bigger than mine, that’s for sure) @j_j that really got me to thinking and researching more deeply …

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...fferent-than-digital-right.37657/post-1490035

 

[MarkS]

my conclusion is that if a speaker requires EQ and room treatment to sound right, it is a flawed design to begin with. Thoughts?

Unless you have a concert-hall sized listening room, all rooms distort bass response, no matter how good the speaker design.

Without correction, every system out there regardless of price of components, suffers from significant audible colorations and loss of detail and focus. No, you can't do the same with room treatment. Even the best treated room requires equalization.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-of-lyngdorf-roomperfect-eq.6799/