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$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

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MKR

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OK just a personal experience here, but I hope not cr@pping on the thread.

10 days ago I took delivery of a pair of JBL 4367s. They replaced their little siblings the JBL 4429s, which I’d been very happy with for five years or so. But you know …

I have to say the new speakers aren’t fully bedded in. Coincidentally the DSP unit I use for room EQ has just packed up, so I currently have unequalised bass — and inevitably it’s a bit lumpy.

But in other respects the new speakers are wonderful. Proper full range sound, great dynamics, very wide and precise soundstage, beautiful articulation.
That is great! Very happy you are pleased with your purchase … the 4367 is very highly regarded, so not at all surprising
 

pablolie

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Overpriced with the BXT IMHO … you can obtain equal/better performance for less money (I am sure this will attract Keith, he has dog ears every time I say something even a bit negative about Kii :p)
Still within a 30k budget - isn't it? haven't checked lately. especially if it's just an upgrade - speakers are the same? sorry haven't fact checked, i'd never drive the Kiis to a limit.
 
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MKR

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Still within a 30k budget - isn't it? haven't checked lately. especially if it's just an upgrade - speakers are the same? sorry haven't fact checked, i'd never drive the Kiis to a limit.
The point is $30k can go a lot further with something besides Kii for my use case … anyway, I already rule out Kii some time ago, but maybe they will work for you
 

pablolie

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The point is $30k can go a lot further with something besides Kii for my use case … anyway, I already rule out Kii some time ago, but maybe they will work for you
Here's hoping your new choice works for you, too... :) Kii supposedly has an amazing return policy and people waiting in line to get the rare returns, so hope you took advantage of that. :)
 
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benanders

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I didn't read in details all posts, so this may have been mentioned, but here it is anway.
The Wavelet is made by the Swedish Bohmer Audio.

That had not been mentioned.
I looked into the Wavelet after learning the local Aeris pair is down for the moment, due to a processor issue.

The Bohmer-gone-Wavelet (now Wavelet 2) apparently started a good ol’ ASR dog-pile last year after a dubious review (why I still figure ASR would be better-dubbed Audio Measurements Review, since the “attempted review” of the Wavelet wasn’t exactly science in practice, sorry but brutally accurate).


Some distilled takeaways:

My apprehensions of software-borne (or model-specific hardware-based) component issues, or lack of options in owner access/future adjustments, are not assuaged. If anything, they’re preamplified. ;)

Legacy offered strong customer service in that (linked) case.

Wavelet MIGHT be adaptable to non-Legacy systems. Or maybe not so much.

The “next level” performance noted by @MKR between Wavelet vs. Trinnov would make sense on a proprietary level for software involved, since even the “modest” Trinnov model offers potentially greater flexibility among brands, verifiably proper HT options and so forth. However, Trinnov’s still a chassis of algo’s from one company. And at ~half to all of the original speaker budget, I’m skeptical of the ultimate ROI for such things. Makes me think of folks who bought into Pono. What a no-no!

The Wavelet’s only 1/3 of the “modest” Trinnov model’s price; is it only offering 1/3 of the experience? I know, apples to oranges on a certain level.

Moments like this I don’t attack and I don’t run away. I just get more curious.
I see no white rabbit here… yet.
 

Bjorn

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Klipsch Jubilee…
By the way, how much is this system that Mr @Bjorn has hinted at several times?


Don't know the final price yet and will depend on custom finish. But a rough ballpark number would be $31-32k ex VAT and ex shipping in the beginning for the following:
A pair of these with beryllium compression driver:
IMG20230113153824 (Medium).jpg


One of this (dual 18" subwoofer) in a passive version:
275757202_5080297312030594_1169636226697991571_n (Liten).jpg


And one DEQX Pre-8 that will function as streamer, preamp, DAC, crossover and DSP:
DEQX-Gen4-oblique-black.jpg


The system above requires additonal a total of 5 channel amplification, but it can be freely chosen and doesn't need to be purchased from us. Perhaps the subwoofer can be offered as active (internal amp) as well.

We are also considering selling the system with a lower cost DSP that should bring the cost most likely below $30k.
This is only a rough ball park price and will only be applicable in the beginning with direct sales. If start to sell via retailers, price will go up for sure.

Anyone who's seriously interested can contact me. Prices are in US dollars.
 

benanders

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Don't know the final price yet and will depend on custom finish. But a rough ballpark number would be $31-32k ex VAT and ex shipping in the beginning for the following:
A pair of these with beryllium compression driver:
View attachment 268108

One of this (dual 18" subwoofer) in a passive version:
View attachment 268109

And one DEQX Pre-8 that will function as streamer, preamp, DAC, crossover and DSP:
View attachment 268110

The system above requires additonal a total of 5 channel amplification, but it can be freely chosen and doesn't need to be purchased from us. Perhaps the subwoofer can be offered as active (internal amp) as well.

We are also considering selling the system with a lower cost DSP that should bring the cost most likely below $30k.
This is only a rough ball park price and will only be applicable in the beginning with direct sales. If start to sell via retailers, price will go up for sure.

Anyone who's seriously interested can contact me. Prices are in US dollars.

That speaker looks like two dining tables meeting a black hole :D

I like how the sub has a mirrored front so the listener can watch his / her hair being blown back.

Joking aside, pretty darned neat.

Is the set priced specifically on the title of this thread, or… ;)
 
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MKR

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That had not been mentioned.
I looked into the Wavelet after learning the local Aeris pair is down for the moment, due to a processor issue.

The Bohmer-gone-Wavelet (now Wavelet 2) apparently started a good ol’ ASR dog-pile last year after a dubious review (why I still figure ASR would be better-dubbed Audio Measurements Review, since the “attempted review” of the Wavelet wasn’t exactly science in practice, sorry but brutally accurate).


Some distilled takeaways:

My apprehensions of software-borne (or model-specific hardware-based) component issues, or lack of options in owner access/future adjustments, are not assuaged. If anything, they’re preamplified. ;)

Legacy offered strong customer service in that (linked) case.

Wavelet MIGHT be adaptable to non-Legacy systems. Or maybe not so much.

The “next level” performance noted by @MKR between Wavelet vs. Trinnov would make sense on a proprietary level for software involved, since even the “modest” Trinnov model offers potentially greater flexibility among brands, verifiably proper HT options and so forth. However, Trinnov’s still a chassis of algo’s from one company. And at ~half to all of the original speaker budget, I’m skeptical of the ultimate ROI for such things. Makes me think of folks who bought into Pono. What a no-no!

The Wavelet’s only 1/3 of the “modest” Trinnov model’s price; is it only offering 1/3 of the experience? I know, apples to oranges on a certain level.

Moments like this I don’t attack and I don’t run away. I just get more curious.
I see no white rabbit here… yet.
Down due to a processor issue? Tell your local dealer to grab a Trinnov :)

As to the Bohmer connection, I was well aware the Wavelet was a Bohmer in disguise, sorry for not mentioning that previously (thought I did for some reason). The primary reason for the cost difference between Trinnov and Wavelet/Bohmer (aside from paying for the Trinnov name :p, and likely better build quality/components) is the EQ algorithm of the Bohmer is done remotely (via server in EU), whereas Trinnov performs all of the calculations right in the box. So for the Trinnov you are paying for all of the in-situ processing power.

Also with the Wavelet you do not have the same level of flexibility as with the Trinnov. Some settings are a bit “baked in” so to speak, whereas with the Trinnov you can modify even the finest criteria. I should also note the Wavelet was designed just for the Legacy speakers and may have some proprietary EQ settings that could possibly work better with Legacy speakers (and for which the user doesn’t not have ability to change or see), but I am not fully certain about that. Regardless, the Wavelet really is a great design and works well for its purpose, but the Trinnov seems to take it to the next level based upon what I heard. Heck, maybe that had nothing to do with the processing but was rather due to higher quality preamp and DAC stages in the Trinnov. Difficult to ascertain this in my audition. I do know the Wavelet build quality was poo poo’ed in the now infamous ASR review, so maybe something to that.

As to that review, it was shameful. Amir should have never proceeded with that review given all of the issues he was having. I can assure you the Legacy dealer I was working with had NONE of those issues during setup and aside from comparing to the Trinnov, the Wavelet is a great piece of kit. I did discuss that review with the Legacy dealer (he was fully unaware of it) and let’s just say he was disgusted as it was not at all representative of the device capability. Per the dealer, based upon what he read and understood, Amir didn’t even have it setup correctly. Anyway, enough of that, won’t go deeper, all that to say take that review with a very large grain of salt.
 
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That speaker looks like two dining tables meeting a black hole :D

I like how the sub has a mirrored front so the listener can watch his / her hair being blown back.

Joking aside, pretty darned neat.

Is the set priced specifically on the title of this thread, or… ;)
The fact that the price was equal to my budget did not go unnoticed. I am sure it is fully a coincidence ;)
 

Purité Audio

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We were the first U.K representatives for Trinnov back when they had just the one box, it is a very capable and indeed can make your room no longer sound like your room ( its original purpose ) I have found that just bringing down standing wave bass peaks and leaving your room to sound like your room is more rewarding.
And of course no form of EQ can correct a speakers ragged off-axis.
Keith
 

Lsc

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That speaker looks like two dining tables meeting a black hole :D

I like how the sub has a mirrored front so the listener can watch his / her hair being blown back.

Joking aside, pretty darned neat.

Is the set priced specifically on the title of this thread, or… ;)
And I thought my salon2 looked big in my family room lol.
 

Mr. Widget

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I have found that just bringing down standing wave bass peaks and leaving your room to sound like your room is more rewarding.
I think what you are describing is similar to my experience. From my experience as you start adding more and more correction you can arrive at a positively stunning looking set of plots, but the sound becomes lifeless and loses dynamics and "life".

I have experienced this with automated systems like DEQX and manual systems where the deeper you go the worse it sounds. I think this is why I like RoomPerfect. Lyngdorf seems to have learned to work on the gross issues like standing wave peaks and leave the rest alone.
 

chouca

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@MKR, thank you for this thread!

I've been following it with great interest since my goals and budget seem similar to yours. I'm looking for beautiful, furniture-like casework, which rules out all the utilitarian black boxes (but not necessarily the KEF Blades) because my speakers will be visible in my media room and an important part of the décor. I love the looks of Sonus Faber, but my experience with their sound has been mixed. In some of their speakers I've heard considerable sibilance emphasis that I couldn't tolerate, but it seems like different models are voiced differently, so maybe there's no way to predict how any given SF speaker will sound.

Do you happen to have a list of the speakers that you're still considering?
 

benanders

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Down due to a processor issue? Tell your local dealer to grab a Trinnov :)

As to the Bohmer connection, I was well aware the Wavelet was a Bohmer in disguise, sorry for not mentioning that previously (thought I did for some reason). The primary reason for the cost difference between Trinnov and Wavelet/Bohmer (aside from paying for the Trinnov name :p, and likely better build quality/components) is the EQ algorithm of the Bohmer is done remotely (via server in EU), whereas Trinnov performs all of the calculations right in the box. So for the Trinnov you are paying for all of the in-situ processing power.

Also with the Wavelet you do not have the same level of flexibility as with the Trinnov. Some settings are a bit “baked in” so to speak, whereas with the Trinnov you can modify even the finest criteria. I should also note the Wavelet was designed just for the Legacy speakers and may have some proprietary EQ settings that could possibly work better with Legacy speakers (and for which the user doesn’t not have ability to change or see), but I am not fully certain about that. Regardless, the Wavelet really is a great design and works well for its purpose, but the Trinnov seems to take it to the next level based upon what I heard. Heck, maybe that had nothing to do with the processing but was rather due to higher quality preamp and DAC stages in the Trinnov. Difficult to ascertain this in my audition. I do know the Wavelet build quality was poo poo’ed in the now infamous ASR review, so maybe something to that.

As to that review, it was shameful. Amir should have never proceeded with that review given all of the issues he was having. I can assure you the Legacy dealer I was working with had NONE of those issues during setup and aside from comparing to the Trinnov, the Wavelet is a great piece of kit. I did discuss that review with the Legacy dealer (he was fully unaware of it) and let’s just say he was disgusted as it was not at all representative of the device capability. Per the dealer, based upon what he read and understood, Amir didn’t even have it setup correctly. Anyway, enough of that, won’t go deeper, all that to say take that review with a very large grain of salt.

Heh heh. I’ll be patient on the Wavelet. I did not realize til yesterday that Bohmer algo’s are not handled in-box. Glad I learned pre-audition - would’ve been hard to conceal my initial facial expression in person!

That thread on the Wavelet re: build quality exposed a damned-if-ya-do, damned-if-ya-don’t pack mentality.
Folks taking issue with the Raspberry Pi controller - why!? It’s well-known hardware, has models produced for preemptively stated periods of time (excepting chip shortages), strong software support track record, and so on. IOW, RPi circumvents many complaints folks have about random OEM chip boards with unknown specs. But if it’s inexpensive hardware, its efficacy for the task at hand is less relevant? Absurd.

Whether it’s a $5K box or a $30K box, price is largely for the proprietary software inside (or at the factory, eek). Just because one guy on one website posts a photo of a used Wavelet with a recognizable controller board and a pinched wire in a chassis opened who-knows-how-many times before the second owner acquired it, doesn’t mean that build quality is poor.
No real reason to assume big difference in hardware quality between Wavelet and Trinnov without a careful peek inside both, IMO.
I agree the software capability of the Trinnov should be superior based on its (paper) stated options alone, and they surely seem to charge for that part!
 
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MKR

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@MKR, thank you for this thread!

I've been following it with great interest since my goals and budget seem similar to yours. I'm looking for beautiful, furniture-like casework, which rules out all the utilitarian black boxes (but not necessarily the KEF Blades) because my speakers will be visible in my media room and an important part of the décor. I love the looks of Sonus Faber, but my experience with their sound has been mixed. In some of their speakers I've heard considerable sibilance emphasis that I couldn't tolerate, but it seems like different models are voiced differently, so maybe there's no way to predict how any given SF speaker will sound.

Do you happen to have a list of the speakers that you're still considering?
My criteria maybe a bit different … sonics first, looks second. If they are the best loudspeakers in the world but are too ugly to look at, I will put an acoustically transparent shroud over the darn things :p … but seriously, looks important for me also, but again sound quality is #1.

And indeed, Sonus Faber are incredible in the looks dept, but the sound is far from end game. As @Purité Audio stated previously, if ya want nice furniture buy furniture, if ya want nice speakers buy nice speakers ;)

As to the latest short list, that would be …

Revel Salon 2
KEF Blade One Meta
JBL 4367 / S3900 / S4700 / M2
Legacy Aeris / V System
Klipsch Jubilee
 

MattHooper

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As @Purité Audio stated previously, if ya want nice furniture buy furniture, if ya want nice speakers buy nice speakers ;)

I feel fortunate that...within my budget...I got both. My speakers are among the most attractive I've seen (for my taste of course) as well as being my favorite sounding within my means. Win win!

Most of the speakers on your list are pretty nice looking too. I'd hope so, for that kind of money.

(I've told my wife: If I ever bring home anything in "Black Ash," you'll know to look under our bed for a pod).
 
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Anyone here going to attend AXPONA? As I have not yet made my decision and AXPONA only ~one month away, may as well take advantage. Not many situations like this where you can listen to so many different systems in one place. Of course not at all the same as spending an 1-2 hours with a dealer listening to your music, but at least you can fairily easily rule out systems that are terrible vs some that may have promise … may add some additional speakers I was not aware of to the short list, plus Legacy will be there and can spend more time checking those out, maybe even have a chat with Mr Dudleston! … If anyone is attending, be great to connect and meet some of you face to face.

And yes, before you ask, I plan to post my listening impressions and maybe even a few photos in this thread ;)
 

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Anyone here going to attend AXPONA? As I have not yet made my decision and AXPONA only ~one month away, may as well take advantage. Not many situations like this where you can listen to so many different systems in one place. Of course not at all the same as spending an 1-2 hours with a dealer listening to your music, but at least you can fairily easily rule out systems that are terrible vs some that may have promise … may add some additional speakers I was not aware of to the short list, plus Legacy will be there and can spend more time checking those out, maybe even have a chat with Mr Dudleston! … If anyone is attending, be great to connect and meet some of you face to face.

And yes, before you ask, I plan to post my listening impressions and maybe even a few photos in this thread ;)
I’ll be there on Friday. It’s a good show.
 
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