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$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

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MKR

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You might find this amusing…. If you have the patience. Wow. The most bombastic bit of audiophile writing I’ve come across. Probably 10000 words before he even mentions the speaker.
I made it through the first paragraph and gave up, and even that was excruciating… ugh :facepalm:
 

Lsc

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Somebody once told me that Genelec (Ones) is objectively beautiful because they've won a design award or something. Oh, must be the end of that debate, then.
All this Genelec talk is making me think that I’m missing out here. Maybe they will be at Axpona this year and I can check them out.
 

mglobe

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Depending in which of my rooms I would put it for me Genelecs are not industrial enough,I would like them rougher :cool:
But no way would put them in my study or living room.
I've been biting my tongue for quite a while on the Genelecs for fear that I'd be burned at the stake for saying it, but I'm not a fan of how they look at all. In a studio they would be fine. In my home? No thanks, regardless of what they sound like. Go ahead and hate me... ;)
 

Holmz

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Drivers with filters >1 order don't have flat phase, thus can't be aligned in FR, phase and time, you can choose only 2 of 3 :)
E.g. if 3 impulses starts would be in 0 ms, phases would conflict near crossover point, FR would be with peaks and dips because of incorrect summation, and the triangle of step response wouldn't be a triangle shape, it will be corrupted even though it is above zero. You need some time delay for 2nd and 3rd drivers to match the phase shift at the crossover point because of HPF and LPF at drivers.

For example, crossover region at ~3ms, tweeter starts in positive polarity, but has a phase shift near crossover because of HPF, for good summation woofer needs the same phase shift (e.g. LR4 filters on both drivers for symmetry) and some delay:

View attachment 263279



Drivers aren't "flipped out of phase". They are in positive polarity, phase and time aligned at the crossover regions but don't have a constant (linear) phase as a system, thus the step response looks like it looks, not an ideal triangle but up and down deviations.
index.php


In general, this is an excellent mixing of drivers in a not-ideal world. :)

I guess I feel more confident in being able to correct FR, and with the DAC having a DSP EQ I can do it for the digital.
 

Lsc

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I've been biting my tongue for quite a while on the Genelecs for fear that I'd be burned at the stake for saying it, but I'm not a fan of how they look at all. In a studio they would be fine. In my home? No thanks, regardless of what they sound like. Go ahead and hate me... ;)
I’m reserving judgment until I see it in person but yes I prefer my salon2 that I have in my family room over them for looks.
 
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MKR

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I've been biting my tongue for quite a while on the Genelecs for fear that I'd be burned at the stake for saying it, but I'm not a fan of how they look at all. In a studio they would be fine. In my home? No thanks, regardless of what they sound like. Go ahead and hate me... ;)
Uh oh, you stated something negative about Genelec on ASR! Nice knowing you :p
 
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MKR

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All this Genelec talk is making me think that I’m missing out here. Maybe they will be at Axpona this year and I can check them out.
Noooooooo … not another Genelec groupie, that’s all we need around here … I expected better of you @Lsc;)
 

Purité Audio

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The first time Genelec exhibited at Munich I suggested that they might make a ‘domestic’ model there was general incredulity, although years later they did paint one of their models white!
Keith
 

Elitzur–Vaidman

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Noooooooo … not another Genelec groupie, that’s all we need around here … I expected better of you @Lsc;)
I live pretty close to the US Genelec Experience Center. I really should check it out to experience all the hype.
 

Lsc

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Noooooooo … not another Genelec groupie, that’s all we need around here … I expected better of you @Lsc;)
Lol! I only said I was going to check it out. It is kind of funny that I have managed to gloss over all references to Genelec on ASR because I had zero interest in them until now.

Axpona 2023 is only 40 min from my house. It’s also the place where I get to listen to those MBL circle speakers along with the Wilson’s and Doshi tube amps.
 

stevenswall

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Depending in which of my rooms I would put it for me Genelecs are not industrial enough, I would like them rougher :cool:
Here's a rougher variant for anyone who likes industrial eye candy.
iu


If we are talking about a house you forgot aesthetics (that's the second for me, after SQ).

You should make a list of your criteria for endgame speakers and what you think the best balance of aesthetics and sound is. Aesthetics was not part of the criteria for a sonic endgame speaker system that worked well for surround sound (mounting and positioning) that I defined. Not forgotten, just purposefully left out as it doesn't play into that equation.

If someone needed a second person's approval concerning the aesthetics or the size of a speaker I'd look at the Devialet Phantoms.

iu
 
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Sokel

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Here's a rougher variant for anyone who likes industrial eye candy.
iu




You should make a list of your criteria for endgame speakers and what you think the best balance of aesthetics and sound is. Aesthetics was not part of the criteria for a sonic endgame speaker system that worked well for surround sound (mounting and positioning) that I defined. Not forgotten, just purposefully left out as it doesn't play into that equation.

If someone needed a second person's approval concerning the aesthetics or the size of a speaker I'd look at the Devialet Phantoms.

iu
My dedicated room aesthetics:

IMG-1224.jpg


3.png



My living room aesthetics:

orion-inside-out.jpg


(obviously not the naked frame)

(I'll see myself out now cause I read something about torturing chairs :p )
 

benanders

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Most speakers sound less accurate if I stand up or change my ear height, and it's annoying in a way similar to if my TV color shifted when I was off axis.

Most speakers have tweeters that aren’t aligned for standing and listening. Standing = detail deletion.
No idea if you’re old enough to remember the first big screen-flat screen tv’s on the market - they did exactly that. I’d no idea why anyone bought those rigs for any room wider than the tv itself!

EX: getting closer to a floor to ceiling line array you are in the beam of fewer drivers, making the sound softer as you approach which counteracts the loudness that would normally increase as you get closer to a source.

What?? No. Just no.
 

Cadguy

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I don't know if the OP could audition the Paradigm Persona 9h. They're at the upper limit of their price range but feature powered woofers (700 W RMS with 1400 W peak) with built in DSP.
 
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benanders

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@benanders thinks speakers that have those qualities have an unstable soundstage...

No, @stevenswall . I quoted your phrase about soundstage / Genelec. And I surely didn’t apply your logic to speakers in general.

I'd be curious to see an outline of his diffuse sound goals and what meets them best.

Here’s the thing, @stevenswall - no one owes you an outline, because you haven’t really offered one yourself. You blazed into a thread over a thousand posts in and laid down a series of unsubstantiated straw men that demonstrated you weren’t attentive to the purpose at hand. That’s your choice and fine, but given your angle of input it’s also neglecting due diligence required to be helpful. You arbitrarily named a bunch of brands and purported that one company beats them for features not all-encompassing for home audio, let alone the criteria clearly laid out by the OP. Mentioning a couple of far-flung exceptions doesn’t correct for that.

Due to my curiosity in the OP’s course, I did offer my own process as a point of contrast, linked fairly early on here as it’s own thread so as not to hijack. Due diligence for sake of making an argument is on you. I don’t mind either way.

Too many people get held up by what they think something is or isn't designed for without seeing the overlapping and sometimes all encompassing useful characteristics. Unless there's a specific disqualifying characteristic, pigeonholing is not useful.

This is what I mean by making straw men: at the start of your message you allude to the speaker characteristics @RobL typed as “qualities.” Consequently, yours is not a statement free of opinion. Those “qualities” become costs in some scenarios (again, for home audio). Is there such a thing as an “all encompassing useful characteristic” in any speaker? Where’s the free lunch finally being provided?

The Ones though are even more versatile because they get rid of the minimum listening distance moreso than most any other speaker. Doesn't matter if they were created for studio engineers, nearfield, midfield, etc. Just that they go loud enough without distortion and have the qualities you mentioned for those looking for accuracy/fidelity.

The Ones brand size fits all. Got it. I’m starting to think @Lsc and I didn’t misinterpret your initial post, lol ;)
 
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