$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[srrxr71]

Hence reason I am not planning on waiting. Not to mention Kevin Voecks (original designer of the Salon 2) is no longer with Revel, doesn’t give me high hopes that a Salon 3 would be better and the entire endeavor might go sideways.

Exactly. Sometimes the need to make a successor product is not that their heart is in it but rather to capitalize on a name.

 

[MKR]

Interesting reading that this cast of speakers among the best in this price range... the process of doing a pre-selection here and then listening seems to me judicious but not infallible if you don't want to make any mistakes in your choice, moreover I don't think that there are really infallible methods because there are still has too much visual bias or simply hearing fatigue that day or at that time, to be able to determine with precision and without errors the winners of this super casting ..
To do this, you would have to be able to live with each of them for a month in your listening room because this one will "match" or not with the room!! and again with the ease or not of implementation in this same room? Finally, there is also a listening philosophy specific to each of us.

sometimes I like to listen to a realistic volume which I would not have allowed to do Kii or D&D that I really liked too and it took me 30 years to realize that the most influential index for me was the dynamics of where my choice of 4367 which are in my opinion "untouchable" on this point (see the opinion of the others mentioned above but if it were other "fundamental" listening such as the sound stage or the deep bass on these speakers which measure all not too bad maybe salon 2 or blade. would do the trick...

Have you hade a chance to hear the Salon 2?

 

[benanders]

Interesting reading that this cast of speakers among the best in this price range... the process of doing a pre-selection here and then listening seems to me judicious but not infallible if you don't want to make any mistakes in your choice, moreover I don't think that there are really infallible methods because there are still has too much visual bias or simply hearing fatigue that day or at that time, to be able to determine with precision and without errors the winners of this super casting ..
To do this, you would have to be able to live with each of them for a month in your listening room because this one will "match" or not with the room!! and again with the ease or not of implementation in this same room? Finally, there is also a listening philosophy specific to each of us.

sometimes I like to listen to a realistic volume which I would not have allowed to do Kii or D&D that I really liked too and it took me 30 years to realize that the most influential index for me was the dynamics of where my choice of 4367 which are in my opinion "untouchable" on this point (see the opinion of the others mentioned above but if it were other "fundamental" listening such as the sound stage or the deep bass on these speakers which measure all not too bad maybe salon 2 or blade. would do the trick...

Most of this already covered in this thread, but no harm in a reassessment every thousand posts or so, hey!?

 

[fredoamigo]

Hence reason I am not planning on waiting. Not to mention Kevin Voecks (original designer of the Salon 2) is no longer with Revel, doesn’t give me high hopes that a Salon 3 would be better and the entire endeavor might go sideways.

Especially since I'm willing to bet that if there was a new Salon 3, it would be above 30 K ..

 

[MKR]

So I’ve actually been on the Revel train for the last dozen years so I’m highly biased. Meaning I had no plans on buying any other brand since I got the Concerta F12/C12. I have listened to other brands but since I’ve owned the F208/C208, F228Be and now salon2/voice2. I’ve heard the JBL Everest at Axpona but at no time have I ever considered JBL. The horn speakers do have that “live” sound but it’s not my cup of tea.

My system is in my family room so it’s about 21 x 19 with 12 foot vaulted ceilings, so pretty average size room. As I mentioned before I use the ATI6003 to power my front 3 that includes the voice2 and the 4000 for my surrounds (good old F12). So no nuclear power…but now that I have a DAC and am not using Dirac, the power is more than adequate. It’s as loud as I can stand it - w no compression.

The voice2 is a very good center channel and it matches very nicely (obviously) with the salon2. Unlike other brands, it’s built to the same standard as the salon2. I currently only have 1 sub (SVS PB16) that’s great for HT but I feel like for music I’m better running full range. I have an F113 but that’s in another room for my kids. I crossover at 60Hz for movies.

I’m planning on getting 2 JL F113v2 (or comparable)…better for music and for movies having 3 subs but overall my system is pretty simple and modest.

Good stuff, thank you sir. For what it’s worth, Floyd Toole, Sean Olive, and Kevin Voecks (all Harman R&D legends) all still own Salon 2s as their mains and run them crossed over to (multiple) subs at 80Hz

 

[srrxr71]

Seems a reasonable generalization. I don’t argue it as a generalization.



But here we’ve abundant (albeit anecdotal) contradictory cases. Produced music even for the consumer market of, say, soundtracks? I assume that’s still so heavily based on a level of overall personal preferences that speaker dispersion patterns won’t predict.

Another factor may be at play - preliminary exposure / bias. If you are judging based on live venues it can be immeasurably complicated, due to such different sounds.
Anyone who’s heard a soundtrack in a cinema may register that as the “original” or correct sound, or “best” sound, whereby hearing it re-mixed / re-mastered for HT or consumer stereo that gives it more precise imaging, will experience a dramatically different overall presentation and think “What happened!?” (and not in a good way).

Those of us who become enamored with the sounds from our speakers tend to prefer them on most, or all, tracks, yes?
Probably because we already had inherent preferences or bias before we landed with, or devised, said speakers.

Yeah too many factors honestly. Like if your room is bad then you may want narrow dispersion. That’s the entire impetus behind audiophiles going for studio monitors.

I don’t really have any reference as I don’t go to cinemas. What I mean by produced music is pretty much everything that is mixed down from multi mic/multi track.

I figure the best perspective is from that mixing seat. Others may not agree. Other may have other needs. It’s always a compromise.

In reality if we could have 2-3 to end systems in the same room or even multiple setups I bet one would be a jazz room another a classical room and another an electronic music room. Each would have different end game speakers. The jazz and classical room might have BACCH-SP loaded

We just pick the best compromise I guess.

 

[fredoamigo]

Most of this already covered in this thread, but no harm in a reassessment every thousand posts or so, hey!?

Ah sorry I didn't read this whole thread. if the issues have been addressed are they endorsed yet?

 

[MKR]

Exactly. Sometimes the need to make a successor product is not that their heart is in it but rather to capitalize on a name.

Bingo

 

[MKR]

Especially since I'm willing to bet that if there was a new Salon 3, it would be above 30 K ..

More specifically, I have been told it will be WELL over 30k

 

[srrxr71]

More specifically, I have been told it will be WELL over 30k

Greed. It’s like the 80s again.

 

[fredoamigo]

Have you hade a chance to hear the Salon 2?

Yes but not long enough and only with audiophile recordings that everyone knows and that was as far as I remember excellent. But if it is possible and with time, if I make an evaluation in order to buy, I listen to a lot of classical music unamplified with if possible piano and orchestral mass ... it gives me a better idea of what are capable of speakers and their limitations is in my opinion much more discriminatory .

 

[Mr. Widget]

Exactly. Sometimes the need to make a successor product is not that their heart is in it but rather to capitalize on a name.

Interestingly Revel (Harman) didn't even keep up with inflation or the industry pricing trends for flagship speakers. While everyone else's speakers and especially flagship speakers went through the roof in price over the last decade, the Salon2s barely went up since 2009.

 

[GXAlan]

As much as academically, you should listen to the 4367 to confirm your choice, I think you should get the Revels, and be done with it since you do have the Studio 590’s for the days you want a different flavor.

 

[MKR]

Interestingly Revel (Harman) didn't even keep up with inflation or the industry pricing trends for flagship speakers. While everyone else's speakers and especially flagship speakers went through the roof in price over the last decade, the Salon2s barely went up since 2009.

Yup. Good for me, bad for Revel . Again, per my “sources”, the primary issue is the cabinets, which are incredibly expensive to manufacture. Actually, from what I have been told, Revel is barely breaking even at current dealer cost. They had/have a choice, raise the price on a 15 yr old design, which from a marketing perspective is a bad idea (no matter how good they sound), or come out with a new design with a better “value proposition”. Also, and this is one thing that makes me sick about the high end industry, or any “luxury” product for that matter … Revels sales on the Salon 2 have actually gone down not due to the performance and quality, but because they are too cheap by high end audio standards! In other words, they aren’t expensive enough, so no way they can be as good as Wilsons, Raidho, Magico, insert crazy expensive speaker brand name, etc

 

[Mr. Widget]

Yup. Good for me, bad for Revel .

Agreed 100%

Also, and this is one thing that makes me sick about the high end industry, or any “luxury” product for that matter … Revels sales on the Salon 2 have actually gone down not due to the performance and quality, but because they are too cheap by high end audio standards! In other words, they aren’t expensive enough, so no way they can be as good as Wilsons, Raidho, Magico, insert crazy expensive speaker brand name, etc

I agree with that assessment. Also, almost every product has a specific market. I imagine most people who have wanted the Salon2s have bought them and even some who couldn't afford them were able to find some real bargains on the secondhand market.

 

[tjcinnamon]

Howdy All,

Just found this site few weeks ago, been a lurker since then, trying to learn, my first post here.

Been in the audiophile "game" for decades, been through many systems, had some great ones to be sure, but always felt I was missing something. NEVER considered active speakers until I started researching all the excellent material and forum on this site. Seems to be a no-brainer based upon reviews, but not being able to play with amps is a strange thought to be sure ... But no matter to me ... If I can get "end game" sound with active speakers, then so be it, I am agnostic!

Based upon all the reading on this site, my short lists are below ...

Active short list:
Genelec 8351B + W371A
Genelec 8361A + W371A
D&D 8C (plus subs?)
Neumann KH420 (plus subs?)
Kii Three + BXT

Passive short list:
KEF Blade Two Meta
Magico A5
Revel Ultima Salon 2
Revel Performa F228Be
Perlisten S7t
Vivid Audio Kaya 45

Note for this kind of money, of course I plan to listen to as many of these systems as possible, but would like to shrink the list a bit if possible, and that's where I need y'all's kind assistance.

My room is roughly 20'x40', with 10' vaulted ceilings. Will be primarily for music, but definitely plan to pull double duty also for home theater. Music preferences are everything (literally) except country (yuck).

So ... Opinions on the above choices? Anything not on the lists that I should consider?

Thanks all, really appreciate your help on my quest.

MKR

Polk L800’s. You need the right room and the the right amp but if you nail that, your mind will be blown.

 

[MKR]

As much as academically, you should listen to the 4367 to confirm your choice, I think you should get the Revels, and be done with it since you do have the Studio 590’s for the days you want a different flavor.

Well, I abhor buyer‘s remorse, so it turns out and is confirmed I will be heading out on one last audition trip in couple weeks … will do best to audition the JBLs so y’all will stop pestering me

As to the 590s, they really are great speakers and they will take up residence as sides or rears. To say, they aren’t going anywhere!

 

[MKR]

Polk L800’s. You need the right room and the the right amp but if you nail that, your mind will be blown.

A little late to the party, but thanks regardless sir … I am looking for a bit more “end game” than the Polks would offer, but I am sure they are very nice sounding speakers

 

[benanders]

Ah sorry I didn't read this whole thread. if the issues have been addressed are they endorsed yet?

The short answer seems yes.
Whether it’s ultimately confirmed might depend on @MKR carrying on post-purchase, with room treatment updates…

 

[MarkS]

they aren’t expensive enough, so no way they can be as good as Wilsons, Raidho, Magico, insert crazy expensive speaker brand name, etc

Classic Veblen goods.