$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[sarumbear]

Maybe but you can’t say that until you try the w371.

I looked at the data Genelec gives. They state W371 will generate 120dBSPL averaged between 100-500Hz at 1m. The speaker has 2x 14” drivers. A simple calculation shows that at 30Hz you need a Xmax of 31mm to produce 120dBSPL. The total the cone excursion will be 62mm, which is much more than a paper surround woofer can produce.

Hence, the more logical number to reproduce a low note from a, say a bass guitar is around 100dBSPL. If you listen at such high volumes you will hit the speaker limit still.

 

[aland]

What I would do is keep everything digital for the Genelec towers but throw 2 x topping d10b for each future sub. That just makes sense.

The Topping has only usb in. Trinnov has no usb out. Just for info.

 

[srrxr71]

If I recall I told you 2-3 times that the W371s has to be auditioned before buying. I mainly informed you that the Genelec subwoofers are not easy to integrate in GLM with a woofer-system. And furthermore I explained that the woofer-towers produce a very clean and fast bass response. I have not said that you should buy these.
Anyway, great speakers!

Regarding the shelving it does not say that much if you have increased the subwoofer levels? Or are they untouched from the GLM calibration?

The w371 was on my path anyway. Saved me a lot of time of useless experimentation.

Even Genelec support basically said “oh well you had some experimentation”. I feel the same. Now it’s $11k of stuff I don’t really need which I have to sell.

Should have just done this in the first place. My warning is firm to anyone with an “audiophile” background.

Even $4k passive can get louder than these.

In a reasonable domestic space (in USA we like to live in houses - this may not apply to apartment spaces) 8361 and at least one 7380 is the only way to go.

7360 is a little 10” toy. It’s not applicable to sofa listening in larger spaces. Especially today’s open plan spaces.

If you are building a bedroom system then maybe this doesn’t apply.

Many folks have huge attic spaces or basement spaces or “game room” they may wish to set up a stereo system. 8341 and 7360 level equipment is not appropriate for these purposes.

I start flat and then use SCP to add +3dB from 0-200Hz. Yes these, even 8361, clip when set up like that. The 8341 preferred to go into protection instead. They also liked to clip too though.

Also i’m wondering since Trinnov does all processing in digital why would it not output channel 1 and 2 in digital and allow me use of its its internal DAC for channel 3 and 4?

I can at least use the 2x 7360 in a behind the seat arrangement when I get the trinnov. I already have them anyway. Then deal with upsizing the subs when I move to a more spacious space or rather one where the neighboring home is at least 60 feet away from my listening room.

 

[srrxr71]

I looked at the data Genelec gives. They state W371 will generate 120dBSPL averaged between 100-500Hz at 1m. The speaker has 2x 14” drivers. A simple calculation shows that at 30Hz you need a Xmax of 31mm to produce 120dBSPL. The total the cone excursion will be 62mm, which is much more than a paper surround woofer can produce.

Hence, the more logical number to reproduce a low note from a, say a bass guitar is around 100dBSPL. If you listen at such high volumes you will hit the speaker limit still.

I sit also about 3m from each. Which is very reasonable single person listening distance. It’s very far from HT distance.

So ones might be inadequate for HT.

 

[srrxr71]

The Topping has only usb in. Trinnov has no usb out. Just for info.

Yes I realize the mistake. There is some $200 Chinese dac to deal with this. Also why not the trinnov allow me use of it’s dac for 2 channels?

Anyway since OP is going passive maybe we need to move this to the w371 end game thread?

This one: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-my-quest-for-the-grail-is-over.23198/page-18

 

[sarumbear]

So ones might be inadequate for HT.

As I keep repeating, it all depends on your requirements.

If you monitor at higher than 100dBSPL levels (and slowly killing your hearing), the Ones are not suitable. They are not designed for such high levels. They publish their specs for you to see. Even 8361A is limited at 108dBSP. That’s 100dBSPL at 3m.

ASR is short for Audio Science Review. You should have at least checked the specifications of the speakers you are spending as much as on a car. If the specs do not mean anything to you, there are many here who will gladly help you to understand and make an informed decision.

 

[srrxr71]

I ordered the 8341 on a whim auditioned them before delivery. That’s it. No need for any more pontification.

Now I have 8361 and w371 soon. I’ll learn to live under their SPL limit. I have my other reasons for picking this system. Such as point source.

If we’re doing home theater (which I would probably never in my life - what to watch that Hollywood crap?) I’ll think again.

Music touches my soul. HT rattles my bones. Don’t care for it.


Edit: couple of things here

1. Nobody knows what SPL they want when they start. When I was in an apartment 8341 and especially 8341 plus even one 7360 was enough. It was enough for that space.

2. Again nobody knows. You set it up and pick a level that sounds good to you. If your stuff clips it’s means you need to upsize. But yes after getting into the new space it was clear I wanted 103dB on some songs and peaks are peaks. They could in theory hit 120dB.

3. You will find lights come on in the most unexpected places. One is a regular YouTube talking head video. The other is Lionel Richie - “You Are”. Song starts at 83dB and it really can crank it up at some points. That got the 8361 + 7360 to clip. Obviously I need more midbass/bass power.

4. As I got used to the 8361 vs 8341 I found myself being satisfied at lower levels. So I don’t often hit the limiter but it still happens. The w371 should solve that problem. If it does turn out the limit is the midrange (I doubt it) then yes I’ll have to either adjust and recognize the limits of coaxial driver technology or sit closer (I could place them more like 2m away) or if I really cannot live with them look for other options. I doubt the last path will be for me.

5. For HT probably studio monitors are not the best way. They are designed for one person monitoring. There is another whole world for HT.

 

[RobL]

Looking forward to hearing your opinions on the W371…I inquired and there are a pair at the Canadian distributor

 

[srrxr71]

Looking forward to hearing your opinions on the W371…I inquired and there are a pair at the Canadian distributor

I’m expecting basically more of the same and limiter lights not lightning. That’s all I want from them. Of course my room curves and grade reports will get better. Will I notice? Who knows?

Probably I won’t hear subs bottoming out either. It’s hard to say some of these songs have that as part of the bass line.

 

[MKR]

Yes I realize the mistake. There is some $200 Chinese dac to deal with this. Also why not the trinnov allow me use it it’s dac for 2 channels?

Anyway since OP is going passive maybe we need to move this to the w371 end game thread?

This one: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-my-quest-for-the-grail-is-over.23198/page-18

Please keep this conversation here if you don't mind! While I am leaning passive, by no means have I decided 100% against active, and this conversation is very helpful at least specific to Genelec. Really appreciate!

 

[srrxr71]

Please keep this conversation here if you don't mind! While I am leaning passive, by no means have I decided 100% against active, and this conversation is very helpful at least specific to Genelec. Really appreciate!

No problem. I just did not want to pollute this thread if you were not interested. But now that I know you are it’s my pleasure!

 

[sarumbear]

1. Nobody knows what SPL they want when they start. When I was in an apartment 8341 and especially 8341 plus even one 7360 was enough. It was enough for that space.

2. Again nobody knows. You set it up and pick a level that sounds good to you. If your stuff clips it’s means you need to upsize. But yes after getting into the new space it was clear I wanted 103dB on some songs and peaks are peaks. They could in theory hit 120dB.

I’m very sorry but you are talking nonsense. Audio is science and in science we know (almost) everything. You buy a $30 SPL meter before spending $10,000 on kit.

I wish you all the best but I didn’t want to leave a post on ASR where it said “Nobody knows what SPL they want when they start.”

 

[srrxr71]

I’m very sorry but you are talking nonsense. Audio is science and in science we know (almost) everything. You buy a $30 SPL meter before spending $10,000 on kit.

I wish you all the best but I didn’t want to leave a post on ASR where it said “Nobody knows what SPL they want when they start.”

That’s silly. It depends on the song and genre.

Depends on the quality too. I was happy with a pair of HomePods. I was happy with ls50w. But the genelecs just beg you to crank them up. Even more when you treat your room. Who knows what your satisfaction point is and with what? Might be lower or higher with the w371. Who knows? Probably you know because you know everything. Let me know boss.

Things change with the space. You know I moved from one space to another.

Things change with room treatment. I went from 0 to 45 panels.

Besides it’s not your money. You didn’t give it to me.

 

[sarumbear]

That’s silly. It depends on the song and genre.

Besides it’s not your money. You didn’t give it to me.

I was only trying to help but you obviously know everything. I was fooled by your profile that says: Addicted to Fun and Learning.

However, you are right, it is your money and you can spend it on anything you want.

Have a nice day.

 

[mglobe]

…

I wish you all the best but I didn’t want to leave a post on ASR where it said “Nobody knows what SPL they want when they start.”

I’m not sure exactly what the poster meant by this comment, but I think there’s some validity in it in that those who have not measured the output from an audio system likely don’t know what 100db means in real life. Having bean through the measurement/DSP process have learned that at my listening position I don’t care for anything over 90db sustained, and I find that only enjoyable for short periods of time.

 

[sarumbear]

I’m not sure exactly what the poster meant by this comment, but I think there’s some validity in it in that those who have not measured the output from an audio system likely don’t know what 100db means in real life. Having bean through the measurement/DSP process have learned that at my listening position I don’t care for anything over 90db sustained, and I find that only enjoyable for short periods of time.

The key word is "when they start". In other words by the time they decide on a system they better know.

 

[MKR]

I’m not sure exactly what the poster meant by this comment, but I think there’s some validity in it in that those who have not measured the output from an audio system likely don’t know what 100db means in real life. Having bean through the measurement/DSP process have learned that at my listening position I don’t care for anything over 90db sustained, and I find that only enjoyable for short periods of time.

This is a great point and as I have been reading this current Genelec discussion, it popped into my head ... I actually have no idea what levels are typical and comfortable for me. Guess I better crank up my current system/room and measure the SPL at my preferred/max level so I have that data point! And no need to purchase anything, "there is an app for that"

 

[srrxr71]

I’m not sure exactly what the poster meant by this comment, but I think there’s some validity in it in that those who have not measured the output from an audio system likely don’t know what 100db means in real life. Having bean through the measurement/DSP process have learned that at my listening position I don’t care for anything over 90db sustained, and I find that only enjoyable for short periods of time.

It’s not rocket science.

You may find 90dB to satisfy on most songs.

You may have a favorite from childhood or otherwise that you want to blast. That’s why these have volume knobs.

You never know on which day what you want to listen to and at what level and for how long.

This is like saying go ahead and compile your playlist and dB level you like for each song. Then cross check whether the system you desire will handle those songs.

Life happens. You move spaces. You put in treatment. You’re in a good mood and you want to blast xyz song. Maybe that song. Maybe the whole album. Maybe you want to listen like you’re at a rock concert for 3 hours.


Who knows? One doesn’t live life planned out like that.

 

[Newman]

I was only trying to help but you [srrxr71] obviously know everything. I was fooled by your profile that says: Addicted to Fun and Learning.

I think those are generic descriptors that ASR auto-adds to our profiles based on post count, “Addicted to Fun and Learning” seemingly for 500-1000 posts.

 

[Newman]

I didn’t want to leave a post on ASR where it said “Nobody knows what SPL they want when they start.”

It’s been interesting to see how CD releases with a crest factor of 2-4 dB are now emerging on Atmos with more like 18 dB. This sort of thing can put a spanner in one’s estimated needs wrt SPL capability.