$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[Adi777]

Kii and Dutch & Dutch are nice, but I wouldn't consider them if I had $30,000 to spend, no way. So, maybe for me, measurements and transparency is not everything.

 

[olegtern]

I did not make such a statement. But it's too loud to call it a myth. If speaker can deliver more SPL with fewer distortions with less power —how should we call this, if not dynamics? If we talk about constant directivity, which can be achieved with horns, solutions like passive and active cardioid have less SPL capabilities, so less dynamic. Not only horns can do this, line arrays for example can also. That's why in PA and professional cinemas we see a lot of horns and line arrays, and not so much dome HF units and 5-6'' midbasses.

 

[Purité Audio]

You can call it a PA speaker, buy the speaker that best suits your needs.
Actually the one horn I do respect is the Danley HRE that was transparent and could play extremely loudly.
Danleys next to Kii 3,

Keith

 

[Adi777]

Danleys next to Kii 3,

Not Mesanovic RTM10?

 

[Purité Audio]

I didn’t think anyone read my posts.
Keith

 

[MKR]

I didn’t think anyone read my posts.
Keith

@Purité Audio Well, I can't speak for others, but I certainly read your posts and value your opinions

 

[Doodski]

I didn’t think anyone read my posts.
Keith

I read all your posts. You're one of the members with comments that I always click on to see what's up.

 

[Absolute]

For me you sacrifice dynamics up high by going for normal dome tweeters. They can't replicate clean transients at realistic volume levels and the sound ends up softened due to compression/distortion.
While that doesn't necessarily mean it sounds worse, it means you will not get that physical feel to transients you can get from compression drivers that makes the sound all that more realistic feeling.
Not likely to be a problem for most people on most material, but I enjoy movies and gaming also.

That said I would put far more importance on capacity in the bass and lower mids where most of the oomph, realism and soul of music lies. Capacity and likely directivity is important in this area, which puts small speakers at serious disadvantage from the start.

Cardioide is clever, but steals capacity in the most critical area imo. The BXT module tells a great tale about the importance of capacity and directivity in the bass range, and a good alternative solution to that technofest is to go wide box with large membranes. They knew this back in the day but somewhere along the line we audiophiles grew stupid or got whipped and now we fantasize about small shoeboxes thinking it's all we ever need.

I would quote Mr. T here, but people are sensitive nowadays

 

[Doodski]

somewhere along the line we audiophiles grew stupid or got whipped and now we fantasize about small shoeboxes thinking it's all we ever need.

It's become silly. I agree with you. Big boxes and big volume is where it's at. JBL is still doing it and some others but the trend for ~45 year has been towards shoeboxes.

 

[Adi777]

I've been thinking about this for some time. The difference in low frequencies between speakers with small bass drivers - 6.5, 7 inches, but a lot - that is, for example, Kii Three versus speakers with at least one 15 or 18-inch woofer. A lot of people say that only large drivers will provide the so-called punch.

 

[Purité Audio]

They would be wrong, it is a question of displacement, personally multiple drivers pistonic /within their passband.
Keith

 

[MKR]

After getting different answers depending upon who I asked, I contacted Revel directly. The Revel Salon 2 is still being manufactured and still available! Needless to say, this one just jumped right onto my short list. Previously had dropped it as I kept hearing it had been discontinued. Nope, not true. Just FYI in case others were also interested in the Salon 2, great news for sure.

 

[GXAlan]

Where K2 S9900 is better than M2 or 4367? Why only 48Hz? Strange.

Everything is theoretical since all three speakers should have distortion levels below the threshold of hearing. That said, the K2 has a better mid range and treble than the M2/4367 when it comes to harmonic distortion. The DD67000 is even better. The K2 is a 3 way.

On the other hand, the woofer in the M2/4367 is better. Before the pandemic and global economic recession, there was talk of a new Summit series product. The DD67000 had its UHF driver replaced by a BMS cone but there is thought that the Everest combined with the M2/4367/S4700 woofer with beryllium or magnesium versions of the D2 technology compression driver would be a measurable step up.

 

[bo_knows]

After getting different answers depending upon who I asked, I contacted Revel directly. The Revel Salon 2 is still being manufactured and still available! Needless to say, this one just jumped right onto my short list. Previously had dropped it as I kept hearing it had been discontinued. Nope, not true. Just FYI in case others were also interested in the Salon 2, great news for sure.

I assume you live in the USA. Last time I checked, the Nebraska Furniture Mart store had a pair on display for sale.
I bet you could negotiate some discount from the MSRP.

https://www.nfm.com/search?q=revel+salon+2&lang=en_US

Location: Colony, TX 75056

 

[MarcT]

After getting different answers depending upon who I asked, I contacted Revel directly. The Revel Salon 2 is still being manufactured and still available! Needless to say, this one just jumped right onto my short list. Previously had dropped it as I kept hearing it had been discontinued. Nope, not true. Just FYI in case others were also interested in the Salon 2, great news for sure.

Yes, I believe it is the Studio 2 which was discontinued.

 

[symphara]

After getting different answers depending upon who I asked, I contacted Revel directly. The Revel Salon 2 is still being manufactured and still available! Needless to say, this one just jumped right onto my short list. Previously had dropped it as I kept hearing it had been discontinued. Nope, not true. Just FYI in case others were also interested in the Salon 2, great news for sure.

Interesting, I asked a dealer last year to contact Revel so I could buy a pair and they told him it was discontinued with no stock.

 

[MKR]

Interesting, I asked a dealer last year to contact Revel so I could buy a pair and they told him it was discontinued with no stock.

Yeah, it's definitely odd and confusing. I wonder if there was an initial decision to discontinue but then due to continued high interest Revel changed course? Or maybe as mentioned above by @MarcT it was the Studio 2 that was discontinued, and this caused confusion among dealer network? Who knows, just glad there is still a chance to acquire a pair of these (new). Anyway, my next step is to contact my closest dealer to see if they can get a pair (or have a pair) and if I can audition. Will keep y'all informed.

@amirm As a Harman dealer, any thoughts on this?

 

[symphara]

Yeah, it's definitely odd and confusing. I wonder if there was an initial decision to discontinue but then due to continued high interest Revel changed course? Or maybe as mentioned above by @MarcT it was the Studio 2 that was discontinued, and this caused confusion among dealer network? Who knows, just glad there is still a chance to acquire a pair of these (new). Anyway, my next step is to contact my closest dealer to see if they can get a pair (or have a pair) and if I can audition. Will keep y'all informed.

@amirm As a Harman dealer, any thoughts on this?

I definitely asked for the Salon not the Studio. In writing!

What you're saying is good news, please keep us posted.

 

[MKR]

OK y'all, as promised, reporting back on the status of the Salon2 ... Actually spoke with one of the Harman Luxury US regional reps yesterday, below are the FACTS ...

• The entire Ultima series has been discontinued, EXCEPT the Salon2 which is still a current model and in production
• Salon2 margin is very minimal (not sustainable is how I read that) as Revel has not raised the price to keep up w/production costs over the years ***
• The reps sense is the Salon2 will in fact be discontinued sometime in the next 12 months for good
• Revel just produced and received into their warehouse a small run of Salon2 in black and mahogany, only ~14 of each
• In addition, there are more units coming mid-December. These will be new A stock units with full warranty and support.
• If you always wanted a pair of these, I recommend placing your order ASAP, as there are not that many coming

*** Given it is still such a world class loudspeaker, I wonder why Harman does not "refresh" and raise the price a bit to maintain profitability. Maybe that is the purpose of the 328Be, but from my research, it does not exceed or even equal the Salon2 performance.

Note I also asked about service/warranty support in the future (after it has been discontinued) and the response was that "drivers/parts will be available for at least 5 years. Maybe longer for the Salon2. We still have drivers for the Salon 1"

Given the above, I would purchase a pair of Salon2s TODAY if I had already had a chance to audition, but I will not spend that kind of money sight unseen (rather unheard). So I need to find a way to audition a pair (hopefully alongside the 328Be and JBL M2, 4367, and K2 9900 ). I would only ask that y'all don't now go out and buy up all the remaining Salon2s until I have a chance to hear them, please save a mahogany pair for me

Anyway, there you have it, "the rest of the story". Now to find a place to audition!

 

[MattHooper]

I didn’t think anyone read my posts.
Keith

I do! And I appreciate your input on this forum!