$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[Lsc]

@Lsc The A5 was on my original short list, and I spent extensive time with it. See my previous audition reports. It is a VERY good loudspeaker, I could have easily lived with it. BUT, compared the the Salon 2, no contest. But again, it is an excellent design, the folks at Magico know what they are doing. It really is not that large of a loudspeaker, but the sound that comes out of those A5s would have you believe it is much larger than it is. Excellent soundstage, dynamics, and really astonishing low freq extension for a sealed design (and as expected, as a sealed design, the low freqs are very taught, crisp, and clean). Again, a great loudspeaker, but compared to others I auditioned, not in the final list. I would also say compared to the “finalist” list, the Magico is not the last word on value, overpriced I would say.

Ok that makes sense. My buddy also has a pair of salon2 but way better front end. The dilemma that he faced was based on the A5 being better. He was wondering if the A5 is better, how much better does it have to be to make the move? But you are saying based on your experience, the Magico is not even as good as the salons. Very interesting indeed! I’ve only heard the A3 back in Axpona 2019 but I decided to stay with Revel and bought the F228Be. Different rooms so it was hard to tell but I thought the A3 sounded really good but part of my decision was that I got a decent price on the F228Be and it was able to blend better with my C208 and Revel surrounds.

Hopefully they’ll have the A5 there as we are very curious. I’m even more curious after reading your impressions. My buddy and I will be hitting the Legacy and Magico rooms for sure.

 

[digital_av]

Does anyone know how Wisdom Audio (LS3 or LS4) measure? I'm considering these as my endgame speaker but looks like they are not very popular(perhaps also due their price and weight).

 

[Holmz]

Does anyone know how Wisdom Audio (LS3 or LS4) measure? I'm considering these as my endgame speaker but looks like they are not very popular(perhaps also due their price and weight).

The Stereophile review looked pretty non optimal for step function response.(I think I had the right model)

 

[digital_av]

The Stereophile review looked pretty non optimal for step function response.(I think I had the right model)

For some reasons I can't find any review on stereophile. The only thing I've found is a short post with no measurements.

Wisdom's LS4

Not a high-tech accordion being held by Wisdom Audio’s Jon Herron in retailer Digital Ear’s room, but one of the four magnetic planar modules used in each LS4 floor-standing on-wall speaker ($80,000/pair) seen in the background. The module’s central strip handles frequencies above 750Hz; the...

www.stereophile.com

Could the step function response issue have been caused by their system controller/dsp rather than the speaker itself? I know they used to sell the speakers as a "system" with a system controller(with ADA conversion) and their own amps but now they seem available as stand alone "passive" speakers given you bring your own crossover/dsp.

 

[Bjorn]

Does anyone know how Wisdom Audio (LS3 or LS4) measure? I'm considering these as my endgame speaker but looks like they are not very popular(perhaps also due their price and weight).

I haven't seen measurements but we know the following:
It's going to have a very narrow dispersion in the vertical plane. The benefit is that it greatly minimizes ceiling and floor reflections, but drawback is a small listening window vertically.

Horizontally it should maintain a constant directivity over a wide frequency area. Since the tweeter section is narrow, it will also maintain the dispersion quite high in frequency. There will likely be some lobing horizontally because of the spacing of the drivers, but lobing at 750 Hz (crossover point) is much less of a problem compared to lobing in the typical higher region. So probably not an issue.

Since it's active, we should assume it will measure very even on-axis.

The low crossover means a coherent sound with no break up in the most sensitive area. The intermodulation distortion of such a speaker will be very low down to a certain frequency. What's uncertan is how "dynamic" and engaging it is to listen to such a speaker because of the planar/ribbon drivers. Most likely this will improve if it's crossed at 140 Hz area to a subwoofer, but the compromise with lack of slam is still probably going to be there.
Overall I think this is very intriguing design. It's going to be awesome in many areas.

P.S. I have designed a speaker with a ribbon/planar driver and therefore have some first hand experience and knowledge about it. In my design, I used a 12" woofer crossed at 500-600 Hz to achieve more output in the important low midrange/upper bass and midbass area.

 

[Holmz]

For some reasons I can't find any review on stereophile. The only thing I've found is a short post with no measurements.

Wisdom's LS4

Not a high-tech accordion being held by Wisdom Audio’s Jon Herron in retailer Digital Ear’s room, but one of the four magnetic planar modules used in each LS4 floor-standing on-wall speaker ($80,000/pair) seen in the background. The module’s central strip handles frequencies above 750Hz; the...

www.stereophile.com

It was a Sabrina. Is that the lower model?

Could the step function response issue have been caused by their system controller/dsp rather than the speaker itself? I know they used to sell the speakers as a "system" with a system controller(with ADA conversion) and their own amps but now they seem available as stand alone "passive" speakers given you bring your own crossover/dsp.

Well I suppose ^that^ makes sense. But why make a speaker that measures that way and then correct it with DSP?
It seems like one would just use a multichannel DSP and multiple amps… but I do not know much about Wilson speakers.

 

[Eetu]

It was a Sabrina. Is that the lower model?

That's Wilson.. not Wisdom

 

[MKR]

Anyone have any experience with these? … https://www.vaughnloudspeakers.com/

Interesting designs to be sure.

Never heard of them before until below review that was just posted … https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews...-loudspeaker-line-array-major-speaker-review/

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Anyone have any experience with these? … https://www.vaughnloudspeakers.com/

Interesting designs to be sure.

Never heard of them before until below review that was just posted … https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews...-loudspeaker-line-array-major-speaker-review/

Seems to to be HEA speakers, they may be good, IDK. . My suspicions are raised however, once I see "SET: in a discussion of amplifers and speaker systems.
I could not find a graph either on their sites, nor prices.
Then there is their story ...
Caveat emptor.

Peace.

 

[digital_av]

It was a Sabrina. Is that the lower model?

Ahh I see..you see confusing Wisdom Audio with Wilson. They are different animals. Wisdom Audio is all about planar magnetic drivers. I like how they sound but I can't stop thinking they may endup being a beheaded panther here on ASR(i.e like Magnepan LRS). Given their high price it would be a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[Holmz]

Ahh I see..you see confusing Wisdom Audio with Wilson. They are different animals. Wisdom Audio is all about planar magnetic drivers. I like how they sound but I can't stop thinking they may endup being a beheaded panther here on ASR(i.e like Magnepan LRS). Given their high price it would be a bitter pill to swallow.

When they are 80k and they measure a bit off, I just assume that they must be Wilson.
(My reading comprehension is probably not great,)

It would be nice to see the measurements of the Wisdoms, and I cannot imagine how one could make a planners have a bad step function response.
As I recall the cabinet ringing of the Sabrinas was also a bit unusually in a long extension of some modes.

 

[songOVERsound]

One issue that has always bothered me is the floor-bounce null. You can put bookshelf speakers with an excellent spinorama like the KEF R3 or March Audio Sointuva on a stand and in-room you may get a suck out around 100-200 Hz depending on stand height. This suck out is audible and right where you want solid bass punch. Tower speakers with multiple bass woofers have multiple null frequencies which average out to a smoother in-room response. So while the tower may not have as good of a spinorama as the bookshelf, it may measure better in-room.
View attachment 270273

Curious what you think about the PMC 140 ci, in this regard. 55 inches tall.

 

[Ciobi69]

Curious what you think about the PMC 140 ci, in this regard. 55 inches tall.

this is an inwall speaker

 

[MKR]

Hi


Seems to to be HEA speakers, they may be good, IDK. . My suspicions are raised however, once I see "SET: in a discussion of amplifers and speaker systems.
I could not find a graph either on their sites, nor prices.
Then there is their story ...
Caveat emptor.

Peace.

I hear what you are sayin, but you can like toobs and vinyl and still know solid speaker design. For example, I know hi res dig is more accurate, but I still like throwing a record on now and then, and thoroughly enjoy it. Let’s not throw baby out with the bath water.

With above said, indeed “their story” is over the top and is the stuff of HEA nightmares

And there are measurements in the review, not too bad best I can tell. Price wise they are quite reasonable (relatively in crazy town pricing of HEA). I think around $20k for their flagship design.

Anyway, was just wondering if anyone had heard these at some point, interesting designs (of course “interesting” may very well equal “sound terrible”).

 

[songOVERsound]

this is an inwall speaker

It’s actually an on-wall speaker. It can be flush mounted, but as I’m realizing, that’s wayyyyyy complicated

 

[Ciobi69]

It’s actually an on-wall speaker. It can be flush mounted, but as I’m realizing, that’s wayyyyyy complicated

Yep it is, a flush mounted speaker has a lot of advantages,but you need the right room and a lot of times it isn't , like the oriented walls like a studio

 

[benanders]

Anyone have any experience with these? … https://www.vaughnloudspeakers.com/

Interesting designs to be sure.

Never heard of them before until below review that was just posted … https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews...-loudspeaker-line-array-major-speaker-review/

I had not heard of those before. Back to a line array design, of sorts.

While I see nothing wrong in liking tube amps, the review linked seems restricted to pop rock “test tracks,” and that could be a very limiting issue.
I’m not sure many hardcore AV gurus will cut a break to a reviewer using SET while streaming action HT scenes.

I’m left wondering about the decision to split the 8 drivers down the backside of the cabinet into a 4x2 arrangement, with that square cable terminals-gone-Vaughn Cabernet plate in between the pair.
4” drivers extending to 8.5 kHz would have enough of a balancing act without an additional 5”+ gap between the middle-most c-t-c distance. Surely 4” drivers can be devised to operate in synergy to higher-than-would-be-predicted frequencies, but the arbitrary-looking gap in the middle of the rear array is something that deserves explanation, IMO. I’m also curious whether phase between front/rear drivers is altered.
I do like the Bakelite look of the drivers.
Maybe the shortest “commercial” line array I can recall. At under 4’ tall, I’d say it should be called the “halfway LA” but seems the designer makes an even shorter version in that vain, and with the name “bookshelf LA”!

Is this maker due to be at AXPONA? Curious stuff for sure.

 

[digital_av]

When they are 80k and they measure a bit off, I just assume that they must be Wilson.
(My reading comprehension is probably not great,)

It would be nice to see the measurements of the Wisdoms, and I cannot imagine how one could make a planners have a bad step function response.
As I recall the cabinet ringing of the Sabrinas was also a bit unusually in a long extension of some modes.

That's a bit harsh on poor Wilson . At least Wisdom(s) are more efficient(100db), on papers at least.

 

[MKR]

I had not heard of those before. Back to a line array design, of sorts.

While I see nothing wrong in liking tube amps, the review linked seems restricted to pop rock “test tracks,” and that could be a very limiting issue.
I’m not sure many hardcore AV gurus will cut a break to a reviewer using SET while streaming action HT scenes.

I’m left wondering about the decision to split the 8 drivers down the backside of the cabinet into a 4x2 arrangement, with that square cable terminals-gone-Vaughn Cabernet plate in between the pair.
4” drivers extending to 8.5 kHz would have enough of a balancing act without an additional 5”+ gap between the middle-most c-t-c distance. Surely 4” drivers can be devised to operate in synergy to higher-than-would-be-predicted frequencies, but the arbitrary-looking gap in the middle of the rear array is something that deserves explanation, IMO. I’m also curious whether phase between front/rear drivers is altered.
I do like the Bakelite look of the drivers.
Maybe the shortest “commercial” line array I can recall. At under 4’ tall, I’d say it should be called the “halfway LA” but seems the designer makes an even shorter version in that vain, and with the name “bookshelf LA”!

Is this maker due to be at AXPONA? Curious stuff for sure.

Definitely some “interesting“ design choices. Unfortunately they will not be at AXPONA (originally had planned to do so, but due to personal situation for Jim, owner/designer, not possible this year)

 

[benanders]

Definitely some “interesting“ design choices. Unfortunately they will not be at AXPONA (originally had planned to do so, but due to personal situation for Jim, owner/designer, not possible this year)

Yes, unfortunate. It’s light on website specs and design details, but that’s not uncommon. Like I said, the visually inconsistent arrangement of front/back 4” drivers (spacing-wise, height-wise, phase-wise) leaves much to question. Superficially, and based on what limited “inferenceable” content can be gleaned from the pop-rock review, the Vaughn speakers seem similar to the Carver ALS - a speaker that banks heavily on room reflections for much (most?) of the sound heard.

Given the speaker’s low power handling ability (2 - 120 W based on the review’s #s ) despite 2x passive 12” drivers per channel, I’m skeptical where these fall in the HT max SPL range. High efficiency doesn’t necessarily = high SPL ability. For many (most?) installations, LA’s should be able to do both (IMO).