3-way vs 2-way speakers. Can 2-way speakers sound just as good as or better than 3-way speakers?

[PashkaTLT]

Actually, the question should be, mostly bang for the bucks: Three-way speaker or two-way with subwoofer? Then it immediately becomes a little more tricky.

3-way with subwoofers

I have KRK Rokit 10-3 3-way powered monitors which have 10" woofers. I'm absolutely in love with them. The bass is great and I thought they didn't need a subwoofer. But then I tried adding a 15" subwoofer to them and realized I'd had been wrong. Now I got myself two 18" subwoofers and I regret not getting subwoofers 10 years ago together with the speakers.

 

[Ciobi69]

you can get great results with a 15 inch pro audio driver and an horn for a good 2 way, will go deep enough depending on the choice of drivers and size,and deliver crazy spl level.

 

[boxerfan88]

Yes, let's say my company is Neumann or KEF or Genelec and we've made great 2-way speakers, say for $3000/pair. Now we calculated that we can make 3-way speakers for $4000-4500/pair. Should we expect better sound from 3-way speakers?

From $3000 to $4500, surely buyer would expect “better sound” and/or “more range” and/or “more SPL” and/or “better components” and/or “looks nicer”, etc…

 

[Pearljam5000]

What about 5-way VS 3- way?

 

[Bugal1998]

The JBL can produce more bass true but B&W can do much more controlled bass.

How might this show in measurements?

 

[NTK]

The matrix enclosure and the stiffness of the B&W drivers can take 1000 watts of peak power compared to the paper dual 15 inch massive JBL bass drivers use. So, The JBL can produce more bass true but B&W can do much more controlled bass. This is why simply no new designs use 15 inch woofers any more and not paper anymore.

The JBL will excel in being very musical. Male vocal will sound nice.

It was quite hilarious as I saw this while searching the web for information on the JBL M2.



And there is nothing inherently wrong with paper cones. Measurements easily tell if the woofer is lacking.

 

[test1223]

This is why simply no new designs use 15 inch woofers any more and not paper anymore.

All reference speakers in the world are 3-way.

That isn't the case. The loudspeaker I posted earlier is a two way design one 5' 5" (180cm) wide bandwidth horn and eight 15" woofers per side. From its sound, price and reputation of the company it is very reference like. I know there is not one single excepted reference for everyone...

Yes! And can also play very good overall.

2 way speakers example:

Acapella Hypersphere

Acapella Audio Arts At Munich High-End Audio Show 2025 – M & S | Ultimate High-Fidelity

www.monoandstereo.com

Each crossover from one driver to the next introduces some compromises but on the other hand each separated way can provide benefits. So finding the best compromise for your application is the hard part for every speaker designer.

I wasn't entirely honest with 2 way since there is a megalitic subwoofer planed for the Accapella Hypersphere, but it purpose is mostly to add very low bass like 7Hz and up or so...
So 3 way in the end

I presented all this to make the point that like always "it depends" is the right answer...

 

[Deleted member 90227]

I highly appreciate the passion you guys are expressing towards your speakers a true audiophile should understand. The Jbl is no doubt a remarkable speaker. At that level of technical complexity, once we are happy with the performance of a speaker we just get emotionally attached to what we have as that brings us such sweet music experiences.

I am recently focusing on a related subject about what qualities a sound system should add to make the music sounds right. The music was stripped those qualities during the digital recording and mastering process. So a speaker, tube, or room accostics may all help here and my understanding about people loving those ventage speakers is because such speaker are batter in producing such missing music qualities. I will soon start a new discussion about such qualities.

 

[darakon]

2-was-speaker vs 3-way speaker:

advantage 3 way:
-Less intermodulation distortion
-generally easier to mange crossover between drivers since there is never such a big step regarding Sd (Size) between two drivers as in a 2 way system

disadvantages 3-way
-The crossover gets more complicated and it's highly preffered to cross active between mid- and bass-woofer
-each crossing point is a possilble source of 'failure' (eg the vertical dispersion)

my personal opinion:
a 3-way-speaker has more potential to sound 'good', if the concept and the design are done well

 

[Sokel]

From $3000 to $4500, surely buyer would expect “better sound” and/or “more range” and/or “more SPL” and/or “better components” and/or “looks nicer”, etc…

Thing is than adding a 3-way to a $3000 2-way properly, will not result at $4500 but more likely to $7000-$10000 or more if one wants to keep quality the same.

Driver(s) of the third way will need at least double the cabinet size of the 2-way (I said, properly, with impact and all, the works, make that x4, x8 better) , and a nice x-over (passive or active) won't be cheap either if we're talking low distortion either free from the analog sins or free of quantization noise, etc if we're talking digital.

Development is also enormously harder, data for lows and spins are not easy to collect.

Ascilab's addition of their bass-module is a good hint, Genelec's W371A woofer is a better one.

 

[Heinrich]

According to who?

JBL Professional M2

M2 Master Reference Monitor Addressing the growing need for high dynamic range and reference-mon...

jblpro.com

JBL … it should have been a 3-way, given the size and cost, mitigating issues that the M2 still has. But business plans were mentioned. Here maybe the connection to heritage, which was also mentioned before. The M2 isn‘t as good as it could have been, when starting anew.

Question is, which quality parameter limits performance first. If it were intermodulation, the 3-way wins hands down. I think in every price bracket, but that‘s an epic story to tell. You may not be that interested to listen.

Directivity is an issue to be solved especially w/ smaller boxes. But this parameter has been exaggerated vastly in recent years, another lengthy explanation needed.

So, people (e/g Neumann, Germany) stick w/ 2-way regardless. Will change once the customers recap their needs, and 3-way is cheap way w/ digital amps in actives becoming the norm.

ps: Sockel‘s estimations don‘t hold. Imadach‘s suspicions on musical qualities lost in translation neither. The devil is in the details—that a consumer isn‘t due to fully embrace, too many variables in a complicated decision process unter floating conditions.

 

[Mart68]

]

So, people (e/g Neumann, Germany) stick w/ 2-way regardless. Will change once the customers recap their needs, and 3-way is cheap way w/ digital amps in actives becoming the norm.
]]

But they don't - there's a Neuman 3 way tested here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/neumann-kh420-review-studio-monitor.33529/

IMV all else being equal a 3 way is always better than a 2 way with the sole exception being speakers like JBL using compression drivers that have a wide bandwidth.

Okay the three way will be larger, heavier and cost more, but there's no free lunch and JBL 4367 is not exactly small, light and inexpensive.

 

[Sokel]

ps: Sockel‘s estimations don‘t hold. Imadach‘s suspicions on musical qualities lost in translation neither. The devil is in the details—that a consumer isn‘t due to fully embrace, too many variables in a complicated decision process unter floating conditions.

Minuscule qualities do not concern me so much, I'm more on the physical side of things, a LOUDspeaker means for me sudden, dry, lighting speed, chest hit when the rest of stuff is at check.
Rumble, not so much, 30Hz-ish, I'm ok.

Talking jbl for example and old gear like M2, I would pass it easily for a couple of soffit mounted 4350A.
Not that I do not appreciate M2 or a nice couple of 2 meter Blumenhofers DV3 of course, just a sole, personal preference about bigger studio monitors.

 

[Heinrich]

Minuscule qualities do not concern me so much, I'm more on the physical side of things, a LOUDspeaker means for me sudden, dry, lighting speed, chest hit when the rest of stuff is at check.
Rumble, not so much, 30Hz-ish, I'm ok.

Talking jbl for example and old gear like M2, I would pass it easily for a couple of soffit mounted 4350A.
Not that I do not appreciate M2 or a nice couple of 2 meter Blumenhofers DV3 of course, just a sole, personal preference about bigger studio monitors.

Hope I didn‘t heart you. The numbers (not) quoted appeared to me as a bit exaggerated. Yep, if physical impact is a criterion, size matters, and size allows for even more „ways“. But in figures, a good midrange capable to deliver hearing loss won‘t ask for more than 150 (end consumer pricing) and the effort to put into a passive x-over (spare extra amp/, e/g mid/tweeter), preferably supported by digi/ corrections, won‘t be rocket science either.

Like often, the topical question is a too wide field anyway, and vague speculations arise.

ps: on April, 1st this year I issued a brief, and measurements on a very small three-way. The topic wasn‘t picked up by even the DIYers. It wasn‘t meant to be a joke, but as an open question materialized. Too scientific in its approach, me thinks. Wonder where this might go now … ?

 

[Sokel]

Hope I didn‘t heart you. The numbers (not) quoted appeared to me as a bit exaggerated. Yep, if physical impact is a criterion, size matters, and size allows for even more „ways“. But in figures, a good midrange capable to deliver hearing loss won‘t ask for more than 150 (end consumer pricing) and the effort to put into a passive x-over (spare extra amp/, e/g mid/tweeter), preferably supported by digi/ corrections, won‘t be rocket science either.

Like often, the topical question is a too wide field anyway, and vague speculations arise.

ps: on April, 1st this year I issued a brief, and measurements on a very small three-way. The topic wasn‘t picked up by even the DIYers. It wasn‘t meant to be a joke, but as an open question materialized. Too scientific in its approach, me thinks. Wonder where this might go now … ?

Don't worry, it's just a hobby, nothing hurts me to it.
The time (a long time ago) I realized that nothing matches the real thing was a liberating moment.
So...

 

[Hear Here]

Hello everyone,

I want to discuss something.
I'm biased toward 3-way speakers. I've always felt that on average 3-way speakers will sound better than 2-way speakers, because each driver will have a narrower range and it should be easier to play this narrower range with fewer distortions.
Am I wrong to have this bias?
Can 2-way speakers have amazing and reference sound and make me feel they don't need a 3rd driver?

If you're not worried about bass performance, a 2-way may sound as good as a compact 3-way that features relatively small bass drivers.

If you want anything like a full-range response with effective bass, then a 3-way is needed, but not any 3-way. It needs decent size bass drivers - 10" minimum, or maybe twin 8".

Although I'm not a bass junkie and have some respect for my neighbours, my last several speakers have featured twin 10" drivers (KEF Reference 107), Martin Logan 13A, Avantgarde Duo, etc and my current speakers have twin 12" ones.

If you go for speakers unable to deliver good distortionless and unstrained bass, you will be disappointed - you won't be happy and will start looking towards adding subs. This adds complications and is a fudge best avoided by getting the right speakers for your room (that's the No 1 consideration) and ones able to deliver satisfactory sound without the need for subs or "room correction" DSP - these signal processors can never correct the room, of course!

Others (those with subs in particular) may disagree!

 

[Deleted member 90227]

Don't worry, it's just a hobby, nothing hurts me to it.
The time (a long time ago) I realized that nothing matches the real thing was a liberating moment.

So...nothing matches the real thing is true but is equally true the scientific means to find out the gaps. Is the industry going in the direction of making equipment closer to the real thing is a big question mark. Perhaps no as only a small percentage of listeners including us care about the real thing. Once the real thing becomes less available, what is available will be the real thing. Some gear come closer to the real thing and this is good to have at least for now.

 

[gnarly]

3-way with subwoofers

Hi, 5-way main; on subwoofer

 

[DanielT]

Hi, 5-way main; on subwoofer

View attachment 476200

Cool and powerful speakers.
Are those bass drivers as big as I can guess, dual BMS 18N862?

DIY right? Was there a lot of work with the settings of all the crossovers?

Passive, active and or digital crossovers?

 

[gnarly]

Cool and powerful speakers.
Are those bass drivers as big as I can guess, dual BMS 18N862?

DIY right? Was there a lot of work with the settings of all the crossovers?

Passive, active and or digital crossovers?

Thx! Yep on the BMS 18"s.
There are a pair of less expensive 18"s in the white main speaker too, but they have to be high passed at >40Hz or higher, so not really used as sub drivers.
So 6-ways total. ....all active DSP. Can't imagine how on earth it could even be done passive, other than maybe between the coaxial CD sections.