3-way vs 2-way speakers. Can 2-way speakers sound just as good as or better than 3-way speakers?

[DanielT]

But that is not the question. Is a three way with the same sort of cabinet, components “class” better than a two way?

At the same price? It probably depends a on what you're looking for.

For example, this two-way speaker:

'Mechano23 Open-source DIY Speaker Review'

Apr 28, 2024

This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of the "Mechano23" open-source DIY speaker. A pair was kindly sent to me by the member. You can read more about it here.

Baltic birch cabinet seems quite solid and well above what you get commercially. I was surprised to see a tweeter with waveguide. Typical DIY speakers lack that.

Back panel has a port and nice speaker terminals:

Designer was kind enough to supply me with component list and costs:

And by the way, I added the components to the cart on the solen.ca (there are no Scan Speak nor...

• amirm
• Replies: 327
• Forum: Speaker Reviews, Measurements and Discussion

• 

For the same price, is it possible to get an equally good DIY three-way speaker? With passive crossover in both cases.
Maybe the three-way speaker would have better bass, (lower frequency, better bass output/SPL), but beyond that I have a hard time believing that it would be better than
Mechano23, rather the other way around.
But on the other hand, it's the bass that is prioritized then...

 

[Puddingbuks]

No not for the same price. Of course a three way with equally priced / class / quality drivers is more expensive. It needs an extra driver, more advanced crossover, bigger cabinet, etc.

So imagine two speakers, in an equally large cabinet, made with the same materials, with external amplification and crossover:
- will a 3 way purifi setup (8 inch, 4 inch, 1 inch) be better than a 2 way purifi?

Better in more headroom, wider frequency response, more even frequency response, distortion?

 

[Hal_01]

I am still sitting on many, many hours of research for a three-way bookshelf/stand design. Cost is not a major factor. Cabinet design, Driver choice, and a DSP tuned product.
My opinion on this topic is, why do two when you can do three?

 

[Heinrich]

Depends on implementation, of course. A 2-way is severely limited in regard to spl if small. A 3-way, if small, has necessarily wide directivity with a drooping top-range. When passive the extra x-over point at about 350Hz will cost a lot. Again, if small, the relation cost versus output is not as fortunate anyway—you need to really need the small size to justify the effort.

If I were asked for a rough estimation I would tell, that when taking intermodulation distortion into tight consideration, a 3-way may allow for +10dB and up of a headroom given the same woofer. So, output versus size cost no object: 3.

 

[jeffaegrim]

I am still sitting on many, many hours of research for a three-way bookshelf/stand design. Cost is not a major factor. Cabinet design, Driver choice, and a DSP tuned product.
My opinion on this topic is, why do two when you can do three?

I don't know. Maybe because speakers such as the JBL M2 and the JBL 4367 do it all and don't suffer any dynamic compression to speak of. Why go three-way, then? The design is already SOTA. In general - a compression driver on a horn with a 15" woofer has been a very common design in the industry for the last ~30 years, I'd say. These designs will blow most three ways out of the water when it comes to output, so I feel like generalized comments about two-ways having "limited dynamic range" are somewhat misguided.

I'll also echo what @Newman wrote above: it's all about the implementation.

 

[Deleted member 90227]

The correct answer to any question is "it depends." However, in principle 2 are batter than 1 and three are batter than 2 and even 4 way speakers can be superior. That would depend on the design especially the crossover and the cabinet. In principle and based on my experience 3-way is the sweet spot. The limitation of the two way speaker is there is one driver for the tweeter and another for majority of the bandwidth. That will limit the potential of that driver to produce linear output across the spectrum. A good three way can go down to 20Hz much easier than a two way speaker. Lets not forget also line array designs even bring more capabilities. So, I am a fan of 3-way designs and I am completely hesitant that a two way design can matcha 3-way speaker within the same design range. I would go two way if I listen mainly to instrumental music and much less bass heavy instruments.

My main speakers are B&W 802 D2 diamond. Three way and deliver huge capabilities. Any two-way speaker cannot match the bass delivered here.

 

[jeffaegrim]

My main speakers are B&W 802 D2 diamond. Three way and deliver huge capabilities. Any two-way speaker cannot match the bass delivered here.

The highlighted part of your comment is clearly untrue. According to measurements, many two ways make it down to 20-30hz with authority.

Mostly musing here, but these are both 2-ways (the 4435 weighs 115kg):

 

[Deleted member 90227]

The highlighted part of your comment is clearly untrue. According to measurements, many two ways make it down to 20-30hz with authority.

Mostly musing here, but these are both 2-ways (the 4435 weighs 115kg):

Yes. I did not say a two way speaker cannot go down to 20hz but a three-way will do it much easier and will produce much more energy at 20hz or even below inside the room. At 20hz and below we feel the bass in our chest. Only specific systems offer that bass authority and I may assume a few people have experienced that especially owners of two way speakers.

Oh, two bass drivers in parallel. So, what is missing from a three way design is the crossover part.

 

[bmc0]

these are both 2-ways

Technically, the 4435 is what is often called a 2.5-way. The right woofer is rolled off above 100Hz while the left one plays up 1kHz (where the tweeter takes over).

 

[Deleted member 90227]

Technically, the 4435 is what is often called a 2.5-way. The right woofer is rolled off above 100Hz while the left one plays up 1kHz (where the tweeter takes over).

Those JBL are very special speakers. Are the bass drivers one active and one passive? The above is a horn base driver for great dispersion. Beautiful ventage speakers. Here you have dual 15inch bass drivers equivalent to 4 10 inch drivers. So yes no surprise if you are happy from their bass performance.

 

[JohnnyNG]

I wonder if you ask the very capable DIY crowd here which they would design as their dream speaker.

 

[Deleted member 90227]

Something as close to those. https://www.tidal-audio.com/la-assoluta/ So, the drivers have to be from Accuton. The enclosure has to be fully sealed and 3 way speaker. I know someone who owns the la-assoluta. So, I have an idea how a great speaker sounds .You need to hear a violin playing on the la-assoluta if you did not have such experience yet

 

[Cbdb2]

The correct answer to any question is "it depends." However, in principle 2 are batter than 1 and three are batter than 2 and even 4 way speakers can be superior. That would depend on the design especially the crossover and the cabinet. In principle and based on my experience 3-way is the sweet spot. The limitation of the two way speaker is there is one driver for the tweeter and another for majority of the bandwidth. That will limit the potential of that driver to produce linear output across the spectrum. A good three way can go down to 20Hz much easier than a two way speaker. Lets not forget also line array designs even bring more capabilities. So, I am a fan of 3-way designs and I am completely hesitant that a two way design can matcha 3-way speaker within the same design range. I would go two way if I listen mainly to instrumental music and much less bass heavy instruments.

My main speakers are B&W 802 D2 diamond. Three way and deliver huge capabilities. Any two-way speaker cannot match the bass delivered here.

Yes 2 ways can sound just as good or better. Its the design not the configuration. There are many 2 way speakers with great bass. Horn systems from JBL Altec Klipsch Meyer with large (15") woofs. Thats twice as much woofer as your 802s. The horns can go down to 500hz so the 2 drivers share the load and the crossover region is not in the most sensitive part of your hearing. There also higher sensitivity and often more dynamic. I think the main reason you dont see more of these is the size, there large.

 

[NTK]

My main speakers are B&W 802 D2 diamond. Three way and deliver huge capabilities. Any two-way speaker cannot match the bass delivered here.

Doubt the B&W 802 D2 with two 8 inch woofers can match the bass of the JBL M2 with one 15 inch woofer.

 

[Deleted member 90227]

Doubt the B&W 802 D2 with two 8 inch woofers can match the bass of the JBL M2 with one 15 inch woofer.

The matrix enclosure and the stiffness of the B&W drivers can take 1000 watts of peak power compared to the paper dual 15 inch massive JBL bass drivers use. So, The JBL can produce more bass true but B&W can do much more controlled bass. This is why simply no new designs use 15 inch woofers any more and not paper anymore.

The JBL will excel in being very musical. Male vocal will sound nice.

 

[PashkaTLT]

But that is not the question. Is a three way with the same sort of cabinet, components “class” better than a two way?

Yes, let's say my company is Neumann or KEF or Genelec and we've made great 2-way speakers, say for $3000/pair. Now we calculated that we can make 3-way speakers for $4000-4500/pair. Should we expect better sound from 3-way speakers?

 

[Deleted member 90227]

Yes 2 ways can sound just as good or better. Its the design not the configuration. There are many 2 way speakers with great bass. Horn systems from JBL Altec Klipsch Meyer with large (15") woofs. Thats twice as much woofer as your 802s. The horns can go down to 500hz so the 2 drivers share the load and the crossover region is not in the most sensitive part of your hearing. There also higher sensitivity and often more dynamic. I think the main reason you dont see more of these is the size, there large.

If the question is can some well designed two way speakers sound batter than some three-way speakers, the answer is definitely yes. But which design has more potential is a different point. All reference speakers in the world are 3-way. I personally enjoy bookshelf 2-way speakers when they are well designed. Their small size make them having bigger potential to disappear in the room leaving only the sound.

 

[Deleted member 90227]

Yes, let's say my company is Neumann or KEF or Genelec and we've made great 2-way speakers, say for $3000/pair. Now we calculated that we can make 3-way speakers for $4000-4500/pair. Should we expect better sound from 3-way speakers?

This takes us to the size and weight for some audiophiles. Some people buy audio equipment's in kilos. Business wise, products are designed to cover certain customer demand taking into account market size where marketing plays a good role. If your company does good R&D and discover a great sounding 2-way speakers with more advantages, you may not be able sell it for a top premium price taking into account customers perceptions which is a fact. So, success here I guess is: A reasonable price + outstanding performance + effective marketing strategy = sales. If you want to do soft scam, a single driver or 5 way speaker is the way to go. You have to be too different

 

[Cbdb2]

All reference speakers in the world are 3-way.

According to who?

JBL Professional M2

M2 Master Reference Monitor Addressing the growing need for high dynamic range and reference-mon...

jblpro.com

 

[DanielT]

No not for the same price. Of course a three way with equally priced / class / quality drivers is more expensive. It needs an extra driver, more advanced crossover, bigger cabinet, etc.

So imagine two speakers, in an equally large cabinet, made with the same materials, with external amplification and crossover:
- will a 3 way purifi setup (8 inch, 4 inch, 1 inch) be better than a 2 way purifi?

Better in more headroom, wider frequency response, more even frequency response, distortion?

A well-designed three-way is definitely better than a well-designed two-way speaker, at least based on the premises you outlined with Purifi drivers. More expensive of course, so you expect better.
Better in more headroom, wider frequency response, more even frequency response, distortion? Well well-designed, then yes.

Actually, the question should be, mostly bang for the bucks: Three-way speaker or two-way with subwoofer? Then it immediately becomes a little more tricky.

If money is not an issue, then of course your three-way Purifi with some really big competent subwoofers. You could say a four-way speaker then.
In addition to money no issue, the usual considerations when large boxes with lots of bass output are to be installed in a home: Consideration for neighbors and their sound tolerance, space, aesthetic appeal or not, in other words WAF in many cases.