3 way active with real punch.. which way would you go.? Pro driver or .?

[Jaxjax]

With high spl DSP active with real punch/slam being out of my $ range it seems DIY active would be for this sorta thing would be the way to go. Top flight Pro bass drivers in 15" range seem like a way to go, but so does the 13" Scan Speak.? B & C & Beyma have some nice upper end drivers, so do many others. If you were to do a 15"dsp active 3way with high spl capability & above all 80-100hz ish pinch/slam that is felt at 9-10' which way would you go.? Been so long since I had anything close to it I forgot what it really takes. Not interested in small multi driver towers at all.

 

[ppataki]

Lavoce WAF154.00 or the WAN154.00
I got (2) SSF153.00 and they have real punch too (but the WAN/F154.00 has way more potential, when SPL is concerned)

 

[Sokel]

With high spl DSP active with real punch/slam being out of my $ range it seems DIY active would be for this sorta thing would be the way to go. Top flight Pro bass drivers in 15" range seem like a way to go, but so does the 13" Scan Speak.? B & C & Beyma have some nice upper end drivers, so do many others. If you were to do a 15"dsp active 3way with high spl capability & above all 80-100hz ish pinch/slam that is felt at 9-10' which way would you go.? Been so long since I had anything close to it I forgot what it really takes. Not interested in small multi driver towers at all.

Choose by range and voice coil. 3" VC is a good start. Even a good 10" will do.
Don't force it to do 20's, 30's is more than enough.

Clean and linear up to 1kHz so you cut it at 300Hz or so and don't go small on cabinet.
Brace it like a tank and you'll be there.

 

[Duke]

With high spl DSP active with real punch/slam being out of my $ range it seems DIY active would be for this sorta thing would be the way to go. Top flight Pro bass drivers in 15" range seem like a way to go, but so does the 13" Scan Speak.? B & C & Beyma have some nice upper end drivers, so do many others. If you were to do a 15"dsp active 3way with high spl capability & above all 80-100hz ish pinch/slam that is felt at 9-10' which way would you go.? Been so long since I had anything close to it I forgot what it really takes. Not interested in small multi driver towers at all.

Ime Faital's 4" motor hits like a young Mike Tyson in a bad mood. Ignore the ballpark 440 Hz dip you see in the factory curves - that is a measurement artifact of the 1 meter microphone distance and the edges of the 1 meter square face of the baffle they use for their frequency response curves. Good motor strength, good suspension system parameters, good cones, really good combination of attributes. Go for one with the Faraday rings for outstanding sound quality.

Don't oversize the cabinet chasing lowest possible F3 and you will better preserve that punch in the 80-100 Hz region.

In what frequency region are you looking to cross over to the midrange driver?

 

[DVDdoug]

Whatever you do, get some speaker design software (WinISD is free), plug-in the Thiele-Small parameters to see what cabinet size & type it recommends and the predicted response, and from there you can experiment (virtually) with cabinet variations (and driver variations).

Since you are not looking for extremely-low bass, a ported design is likely to work best but you'll only know after running the software simulation.

 

[Jaxjax]

Ime Faital's 4" motor hits like a young Mike Tyson in a bad mood. Ignore the ballpark 440 Hz dip you see in the factory curves - that is a measurement artifact of the 1 meter microphone distance and the edges of the 1 meter square face of the baffle they use for their frequency response curves. Good motor strength, good suspension system parameters, good cones, really good combination of attributes. Go for one with the Faraday rings for outstanding sound quality.

Don't oversize the cabinet chasing lowest possible F3 and you will better preserve that punch in the 80-100 Hz region.

In what frequency region are you looking to cross over to the midrange driver?

Not real sure, but my active system now is at 385 & has good punch in small scale. As long as I can stay away from horrible beaming & stays clean I'm good. I'll check into the Faital, I was just on US Speakers web site & they have Faital.

 

[Jaxjax]

Choose by range and voice coil. 3" VC is a good start. Even a good 10" will do.
Don't force it to do 20's, 30's is more than enough.

Clean and linear up to 1kHz so you cut it at 300Hz or so and don't go small on cabinet.
Brace it like a tank and you'll be there.

I'm definitely good with 30.

 

[kemmler3D]

If you have the budget you can DIY a JBL M2... It's technically a 2-way but don't hold that against it. The stock drivers are available as parts and people have reverse engineered the crossover and cabinet. There is at least one thread about it on ASR.

 

[Jaxjax]

Go for one with the Faraday rings for outstanding sound quality.

Same as Demodulation rings .?

 

[Duke]

Same as Demodulation rings .?

Yes.

 

[Heinrich]

If you have the budget you can DIY a JBL M2... It's technically a 2-way but don't hold that against it. The stock drivers are available as parts and people have reverse engineered the crossover and cabinet. There is at least one thread about it on ASR.

I advise against a two-way, especially against a rebuild of the 'legacy oriented' M2. An additional cross over point somewhere around 200..300Hz will allow for a 12" bass driver, especially when considering the moderate listening distance. The midrange could be a 6" to 8" Celestion. I've seen quite promising data. On top I suggest a waveguided hifi-tweeter or a coaxial, e/g Kartesian (https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/product/cox165_vpa, I had it and it was quite good for the job). All that could be packed into 100cm x 35cm x 35cm, port tuned not higher than 35Hz with at least 10cm port diameter. Consider to cross over the easier parts passive cap/coil, e/g the coax, or mid/waveguide to spare otherwise wasted power.

 

[Wolf11Man]

The best you can do is go to the diyAudio forum and start a thread. Here are more the "I have heard" people, while at the other forum you find the "I have build one" guys.
Lately there are some interesting threads about "monkey coffin" 3-way speaker. Would be glad to help, but ASR is no DIYS place.

 

[Sokel]

Here are more the "I have heard" people,

@Duke an "I have heard" person only???
That was a good laugh, bless you.

 

[Heinrich]

The best you can do is go to the diyAudio forum and start a thread. Here are more the "I have heard" people, while at the other forum you find the "I have build one" guys.
Lately there are some interesting threads about "monkey coffin" 3-way speaker. Would be glad to help, but ASR is no DIYS place.

And if not hearsay, it is the spinorama

A 15" gets only 3dB louder than a 12", given the respective cone areas and the same excursion. Excursion in a two way is limited by IM and Doppler rather quickly. Center to center distance is a big problem too, if longing for reasonable vertical dispersion for a living room or something around that lines.

I came to combine two of the same type 12" bass/mid drivers, one dedicated to bass, the other to midrange (180Hz) only. What a waste you think, but it was not. I had to use a pro waveguide/compression driver combo on top for financial reasons. The vertical was, using fancy tricks, just allright, leaving some to be desired (+/-30°, which is a lot already).

 

[YSDR]

A 15" gets only 3dB louder than a 12", given the respective cone areas and the same excursion.

A typical 15" don't have twice the cone area of a typical 12", so the difference is less than 3 dB. A 15" have about 1.6x cone area of a 12".

 

[Roland68]

With high spl DSP active with real punch/slam being out of my $ range it seems DIY active would be for this sorta thing would be the way to go. Top flight Pro bass drivers in 15" range seem like a way to go, but so does the 13" Scan Speak.? B & C & Beyma have some nice upper end drivers, so do many others. If you were to do a 15"dsp active 3way with high spl capability & above all 80-100hz ish pinch/slam that is felt at 9-10' which way would you go.? Been so long since I had anything close to it I forgot what it really takes. Not interested in small multi driver towers at all.

What kind of budget do you have?

 

[Wolf11Man]

The CE rules have been an weak attempt to stop the allmighty German TÜV and compareable organisations from participating on any product sold in Europe and giving back certification to the producer. The TÜV (which has various independent branches) has spread all over the world and has opened doors to unlimited corruption in selling approvements instead of really testing products for safety.
In fact if you want to sell a simple passive driver in a box (what is called a full range speaker) in Europe, you got to have it tested by the TÜV. Even the most simple and useless tests start at 5000$, while the producer has to deliver all paperwork. This has gotten out of hand and made this once small German NGO one of the most profitable business models in the world. They have an endless story of corruption and abuse of their power, prohibiting new actors the access to markets. Their unlimited financial power has made them untouchable.
The TÜV has its roots in the inspection of notoriously dangerous steam engines in the 18th century, privatizing the government control mechanisms.

 

[Jaxjax]

What kind of budget do you have?

I'd like to keep it at 2- $2500. for all of it. I can do the cabs & they will be dull black as I run pro dull black now & acceptable in my living room. I have 3 -Yamaha P2500S that I will use to get by. So budget is drivers & MiniDSP, cab material. I have all the cabling.
I'm running 1-5-9 active dsp @ 500/500/250 now .It's still sounds small to me. Only interested in 30hz, I don't want to mess with the problems of getting to 20.

 

[Roland68]

The CE rules have been an weak attempt to stop the allmighty German TÜV and compareable organisations from participating on any product sold in Europe and giving back certification to the producer. The TÜV (which has various independent branches) has spread all over the world and has opened doors to unlimited corruption in selling approvements instead of really testing products for safety.
In fact if you want to sell a simple passive driver in a box (what is called a full range speaker) in Europe, you got to have it tested by the TÜV. Even the most simple and useless tests start at 5000$, while the producer has to deliver all paperwork. This has gotten out of hand and made this once small German NGO one of the most profitable business models in the world. They have an endless story of corruption and abuse of their power, prohibiting new actors the access to markets. Their unlimited financial power has made them untouchable.
The TÜV has its roots in the inspection of notoriously dangerous steam engines in the 18th century, privatizing the government control mechanisms.

What does this topic have to do with this thread?

There are no legal regulations for any TÜV testing of loudspeakers or other hi-fi equipment. Where does such nonsense come from?

All existing TÜV organizations are purely private. If you want to have any tests, measurements, or certificates for hi-fi equipment from the TÜV, it's completely voluntary.

 

[Heinrich]

I'd like to keep it at 2- $2500. for all of it. I can do the cabs & they will be dull black as I run pro dull black now & acceptable in my living room. I have 3 -Yamaha P2500S that I will use to get by. So budget is drivers & MiniDSP, cab material. I have all the cabling.
I'm running 1-5-9 active dsp @ 500/500/250 now .It's still sounds small to me. Only interested in 30hz, I don't want to mess with the problems of getting to 20.

That's practically a cost-no-object budget, no need to exhaust it. I strongly suggest to look into coax for upper mids / treble for home use, plus another dedicated midrange below. One or the other x/over can (or even should) be done passive ... I repeat myself.

Good luck

A typical 15" don't have twice the cone area of a typical 12", so the difference is less than 3 dB. A 15" have about 1.6x cone area of a 12".

According to the WinIsdn the 3dB is a good estimate. Comparing two drivers from Beyma with the same motor, one 12", the other 15". Difference in max output should be 20log10(830/550) = 3,5something