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2nd generation EIGENTAKT PURIFI 1ET6525SA (successor to the 1ET400A)

Could you provide an example of this please?

When I look to block diagrams in Hypex white papers & Self amps book, NC400 schematic, BP interview transcripts, and so on - I find the load and the feedback loop connected to a large inductor and large paralleled caps after the power FET's. Both the output and the feedback would be influenced by the filter. I've been unable to find a diagram or schematic with a filter like this only in the feedback loop.
For many class D topologies, the feedback is taken before the output filter, so the total power bandwidth is the lowest between power stage bandwidth and filter bandwidth. Since there is a need to have the lowest fc as possible value for the filter, it happen to always be driver of the amplifier bandwidth.
Once you take the feedback at the filter's output, it corresponds to including the filter in the loop. Then the total bandwidth is determined by the poles and zeros from the loop, including the complex pair caused by the filter.
 
Thank you, but isn't that of the Boxem using the same module?
This thread is about the new EIGENTAKT PURIFI 1ET6525SA module and that is what @boXem measured.
 
This thread is about the new EIGENTAKT PURIFI 1ET6525SA module and that is what @boXem measured.
Thank you. For whatever reason, I was under the impression the test was for a similar boXem amplifier sold by that company.
 
@Buckeye Amps Hi, I've noticed that you are discontinuing the 1ET7040SA monoblock offering on your website.
Does this mean there will also be a new model to replace the 1ET7040SA? Thanks
 
@Buckeye Amps Hi, I've noticed that you are discontinuing the 1ET7040SA monoblock offering on your website.
Does this mean there will also be a new model to replace the 1ET7040SA? Thanks
No. Just phasing it out as it is an awkward offering to carry with the other monoblock models available now.
 
As @boXem said bandwidth is not necessarily related to the output filter though it may be part of what limits bandwidth.

Modern class D designs provide very wide internal bandwidth and much higher loop gain than typical (most, probably all) class A or AB designs. That is the reason for their lower distortion, lower output impedance (higher damping factor), and so forth. The output filter to reduce switching noise is above the audio band and included in the feedback loop so not a direct contributor to bandwidth, which is determined by loop gain and thus primarily (IMO) noise, distortion, and stability criteria. Like any other amplifier, bandwidth is a design choice, and likely driven by marketing since bigger numbers are often perceived as better. With class D switching speeds running in the 500 kHz range, bandwidth well beyond the audio band is easily achieved, and 50~100 kHz is way beyond what we can hear and/or want to send to any speaker. Without class D's high loop gain and internal bandwidth, class A and AB designs typically require greater bandwidth to achieve the same distortion and flatness specs to 20 kHz, making their greater bandwidth a limitation and not a feature.

From a design and use point of view, excessive bandwidth is not usually a good thing. Higher bandwidth means greater noise, more issues with stability, more power needed (wasted) to support the wider bandwidth, greater potential for sending ultrasonic signals to the speakers (goodbye tweeters), and so forth. Wide bandwidth can reduce high-frequency roll-off in the audio band, but whether the amp is -0.01 dB or -0.1 dB at 20 kHz, it is going to be inaudible. It can also reduce phase shift at very high frequencies, but again that is almost certainly inaudible, and both roll-off and phase shift in an actual system is so far dominated by the speakers that the amplifier is inconsequential.
@DonH56 I'm sorry to trouble you again with this as you'd already covered this in vivid detail but the sections highlighted above are they the 2 primary improvements as to why Purifi decided to increase the power bandwidth from 60kHz to 80kHz along with the significantly better noise and distortion improvements that the 2nd Generation Eigentakt module has provided and having a competitive marketing edge over Hypex's power bandwidth of 70kHz/75kHz, it seems with every generational improvement the power bandwidth extends an additional 20kHz?
 
@DonH56 I'm sorry to trouble you again with this as you'd already covered this in vivid detail but the sections highlighted above are they the 2 primary improvements as to why Purifi decided to increase the power bandwidth from 60kHz to 80kHz along with the significantly better noise and distortion improvements that the 2nd Generation Eigentakt module has provided and having a competitive marketing edge over Hypex's power bandwidth of 70kHz/75kHz, it seems with every generational improvement the power bandwidth extends an additional 20kHz?
No idea, not my day job. But like many "numbers games" there needs to be a limit. A power bandwidth of >30 kHz is greater than what we can hear, greater than tweeters want to deal with, and too much bandwidth can increase noise and susceptibility to instability. "Enough and no more" is a pretty good engineering standard. Greater loop bandwidth provides more feedback to lower distortion, but extending that to the end-to-end (input to output) bandwidth is not necessarily a good thing in my mind. There have been audio amplifiers touting (usually small-signal) bandwidth >1 MHz, meaning you could use it as an AM radio amplifier. And thus it can amplify any EMI/RFI or just over-the-air signals that manage to get coupled into the input, sending it to speakers that will just convert the signals to heat. At some point the excess bandwidth becomes a detriment and input (as well as output) filters will be needed to keep the amplifier (and speakers) happy.

A similar thing is likely to happen with switching speeds. Switching power supplies are available with >2 MHz average rate, and multiplexed schemes that achieve nearly 10 MHz, but those speeds require significant power to switch the devices and can lower efficiency. Most of those SMPS are for digital ICs that only require a few volts, compared to 50~100 V for an audio amplifier, so again driving power (to switch the devices, not from the audio input) and switching losses increase. It also means greater noise that must be screened, filtered, or otherwise controlled to meet various FTC/FCC radiation interference standards as well as making it harder to keep from mixing/modulating into the analog signal.

My guess is greater loop gain and bandwidth provided lower distortion due to greater feedback, and as a by-product they could increase large-signal bandwidth to be more competitive with Hypex, but to me large-signal bandwidth significantly greater than 20 kHz is not something I look for in an audio amplifier. It is not something that I consider a strike against it, assuming other specs are good and the bandwidth is not excessive IMO (say >50~100 kHz), but too often marketing and consumers focus on "bigger is better" without regard to whether the bigger numbers are useful or even make sense. Higher bandwidth, power, price, etc. do not always mean a better product, audibly or otherwise.

IMO - Don
 
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In my opinion, gen1 was a definitive amplifier. I'm not against improvements, obviously, but ... our ears only get worst everyday :)
Inaudible 10 years ago is much more inaudible today.

So, I'm glad gen2 is an improvement (inaudible in my opinion) but also the price tag is reasonable (not the "high end" madness).

So kudos to Purify for that. Be happy with gen1 or gen2 and enjoy music.
 
I think the green PCB sounds more natural, organic; while the red PCB definitely sounds warmer, even spicier.

I would like one with a gray PCB. The sound would be more neutral.
 
I am not sure, the Purifi shop is still selling them.
You'd have to double check ETA after actually checking out. They may have some still on hand but any large order of 400A modules have to be manufactured from "the start" per order (which is a 12wk lead time or so). Hence why it just made sense to switch completely over to the 6525 for us.
 
I am not sure, the Purifi shop is still selling them.
Yeah, it's strange that they recently became available again earlier this month, perhaps one last production run, it was showing out of stock for quite some time, only the 1ET400A module & EVAL2 Mono kit are available, the EVAL1 Stereo kit remains unavailable, it appears that there is only a singular module left of the 1ET400A & EVAL2 Mono kit.
 
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Also, their online store ETA is definitely not up to date often.

For instance, the 1ET7040SA shows 'Shipping within 7 days' but they are waiting for more stock sometime in December.
 
I need a new amp so I have a second sound system. I've already got the audiophonics 1et400a. I haven't decided whether to get another one or this new one. You've probably got enough business @boXem and @Buckeye Amps but if either one of you or both were able to send this new amp to be reviewed by Amir you would get a headstart on audiophonics and you would probably in all likelihood rapidly expand your business. What do you think? Unfortunately I live in the UK so it's not very feasible for me to buy one and send it to Amir.

I want to use it bufferless if that's the right term, so the lowest gain possible.

Cc @Audiophonics
We have a pretty substantial review coming out soon for the 9040, just not through Amir/ASR yet.
 
What's the 9040? Isn't that a different amplifier?
Oops. My bad. Forgot this was for the 6525SA (have two different Purifi thread notifications happening at the moment).

There is almost no expediancy to getting a 6525SA review...for those who already have an ET400A or are looking at an ET400A at a discount, they are not missing out on the 6525SA. Likewise, for those looking at the 6525SA, it is just replacing the 400A so there isn't some new ground breaking advancement that a new review will show in measurements.
 
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