- Thread Starter
- #41
Thanks for the input. I think trying the AVR without any DAC is getting a lot of votes. I have not tried a new AVR in well over 10 years and have always been disappointed with Audyssey auto eq with my older AVRs. I’m also hearing from most that spending more on an AVR for a “better” DAC and preout stage will be hard to notice. This is what I expected... but good to hear.From what I gathered, there is no consensus so far. I think it depends on whether you believe those (manufacturers, sellers, dealers etc.) who want to sell you the product or those who have been there, done that, and now believe in specs and measurements.
My opinion is:
- What you are trying to do is great, except the part about connecting the AVR pre out to the SHD.
- Dirac Live may be better if you believe in the benefit of EQ above the room transition frequency, if not I am 100% sure Audyssey(with the App andRatbuddyssey) Vs Dirac Live = audibly no difference, assuming you do your own customization post auto calibration/EQ.
Going from AVR pre out to SHD makes no sense, unless you are a good reason for not feeding the analog signal directly to the mini. It seems to me, if you want to use the mini for music only, you can do so already without involving the AVR.
Now, if I think like a competent EE, I would say forget about the SHD if the following can do what you want to do:
- The 3700 or 4700 if Auro3D, front HDMI port, and a better display are important to you.
- Pick the best desktop <$1,000 DAC ASR has measured so far (that could include the mini, but why pay for Dirac Live..).
- Use the desktop DAC with the Denon's analog input, use something like JRiver that offers great PEQ, so you can forget about REQ, Dirac or not.
My reasoning:
- You can't (try some online test to find out if you even have a chance) hear the difference between 95 dB SINAD or 120 dB SINAD unless you have perfect hearing, extremely quiet room, listen to a wide range of maximum peak SPL in the range of 60-120 dB, the whole audio signal chain has the high enough SINAD bench verified specs, music recorded in quality that can take advantage the SOTA specs, and most important, speakers that can reveal the differences to you.
- If you are of the type who believe well designed electronics such as power amps have different sound signatures, then you would have to look to the likes of some (not all) of the Krell, Passlab, D D'Agostino's Momentum Monoblocks that the designers appeared to have designed their amps based on good principles and then fine tune them by ears and trial and error (just my take, from reading online material including their own articles). I don't like that kind of amps because for them to have the so called musical sound, they will have to have high enough distortions and/or non flat FR, higher output impedance etc. etc.., and then the buyer would have to listen to the products preferable in their own setup at home, to find out if their own subjective preference happens to line up well with the designer's. Note: forget about the Marantz "also claimed" tuned by ears (by their sound master, not the designers themselves), as that can be debunked by yourself using logic and purchase a couple of service manuals.
- So if you are the type (doesn't sound like you are but just in case) who prefer products designed for accuracy and then do your own tuning, then yes, a <$1,500 AVR that measured as good as the X3700H probably will be all you need, and it will "sound" the same in an apples to apples comparison in a "blind" comparison test with a Bryston, Anthem, Parasound, ATI, McIntosh or even the class D Hypex based amps.
An issue I have with feeding the DAC to the AVR is to get the bass management of the AVR, won’t the analog DAC input be sampled and filtered? That defeats the point of using the DAC. I would use the SHD to get good bass eq and a x from mains to subs for music... again this forum I saying try a high rated AVR and go beyond auto eq and the music quality difference vs the DAC will be hard to notice. I open to this and I do have a ASR high rated BM DAC2 that I could test against (but it also has no bass management).
On the amp, I already own the Hypex and can notice a difference vs my current 2 AVRs (SR5004 and NAD 775HD2) feeding speakers like magnepan. I don’t attribute this to sonic signature but probably limits in the power supply - especially when the AVR is feeding 7 chs. Maybe with a new and/or more powerful AVR there would not be a noticeable difference. I had small bryston mono blocs for 10+ years. I bought them used based on specs and warranty/reputation. They were great and when I sold them I got well over half back of what I paid. I bought the hypex based on specs/reputation, size and price (sub 500 DIY cost). The brystons were just a little too big/hot and had down to less than 5 years of their 20 year warranty left.
Appreciate everyone’s input... seems like SHD has integration issues with HT. Now I need to determine the best bang for the buck AVR and seems like denon 3700/4700 is a favorite... I’ll need to spend some time reading their ASR reviews.