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2k - 3k Hifi small room system advice.
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MarkS
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Translation: we made it deliberately colored and like it that way.
Pareto Pragmatic
Senior Member
With Ascend on your list, consider Sierra LX ($1550). Goes to down to 40hz, room gain will likely cover well below that. VERY controlled bass.
Wiim streamer at $100-300 US (gives you EQ and parametric EQ options), SMSL dac of some sort (I just got the DO100 pro for $220 US), Fosi v3 monoblocks (~300, but I would get two 48/5 amp power supplies, not the single 48/10amp.)
I think for the money, that system would be hard to beat in any small to medium room.
As for integrated, the last time I considered one, I was down to Cambridge or Yamaha on my list.
Your biggest problem will be too many options. So first goal, I suggest, is to find a top 3 for each component, then decide among those three.
Enjoy the hunt, and the music!
Wiim streamer at $100-300 US (gives you EQ and parametric EQ options), SMSL dac of some sort (I just got the DO100 pro for $220 US), Fosi v3 monoblocks (~300, but I would get two 48/5 amp power supplies, not the single 48/10amp.)
I think for the money, that system would be hard to beat in any small to medium room.
As for integrated, the last time I considered one, I was down to Cambridge or Yamaha on my list.
Your biggest problem will be too many options. So first goal, I suggest, is to find a top 3 for each component, then decide among those three.
Enjoy the hunt, and the music!
DanielT
Master Contributor
Many interesting and good speakers. A word of caution about Zu Audio. Their speakers can really color the sound. I would advise you not to buy them unheard. In fact, I would advise you to buy neutral speakers and AFTER that IF you want to color them via EQ. Then you have the opportunity to tinker and fix with FR as you wish and if you get tired of the coloring (many, most, do that after a while) you have your good neutral speakers to return to. Something you can't do with Zu Audio speakers. Or maybe you can EQ them to neutrality if their on and off axes follow each other, but that's such a backwards way of tinkering with speakers. Much better if they are neutral from the start.
Edit
I saw that you are thinking about EQ. Makes sense. Mainly in the lowest frequencies. The room makes a real mess with FR in the bass area. Then EQ is needed.
Keep in mind that the more EQ you do, the more power you need to take out of your amp, so fix enough power. Amplifier power headroom is always good to have.
Say that you perform EQ operations and lower the speaker sensitivity with 3 dB. This means that double the amp power is needed. This applies to passive as well as active speakers.
It might make sense to also have speakers with good power handling in case of EQ operations.
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DanielT
Master Contributor
It seems like a good sensible combination for a smaller listening room I must say.
Here is an interview with Peter Comeau. It was interesting as past and present HiFi is covered and how a lot of well-known brands fit under the IAG umbrella:Translation: we made it deliberately colored and like it that way.
5:20 into the video Peter Comeau describes the design philosophy between Wharfedale and Mission so he definitely creates different sound characters in his different designs:
The International Audio Group (IAG) is a Chinese manufacturer of consumer and professional audio & HiFi components. It is based in Shenzhen in China. It is owned and run by twin brothers Bernard and Michael Chang.[1]
In the past the IAG purchased several British HiFi manufacturers: Audiolab, Wharfedale, Quad Electroacoustics, Mission, Tag McLaren, and Castle Acoustics, Japanese brand Luxman, plus several Italian manufacturers of lighting equipment including f.a.l. and Coef. It has a manufacturing plant in Ji'an China employing 1500 people. Design of the products is done by Chinese and European designers.
International Audio Group - Wikipedia
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Penelinfi
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Even I want to try Sierra LX. Bookshelf speakers with good bass are fun
I think if you want "tight bass", you should also look for something that can do decent EQ/DSP so you can at least control room peaks. Every room seems to have one strong resonance that will affect any speaker.
I think if you want "tight bass", you should also look for something that can do decent EQ/DSP so you can at least control room peaks. Every room seems to have one strong resonance that will affect any speaker.
lowkeyoperations
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If you want tight bass, then I’d highly recommend the Lyngdorf with Room Perfect or something with Dirac.
IMO room correction (Dirac Live)has tightened up the bass on my system more than any other change.
There are so many peaks below 500hz in most rooms that it’s often a real mess down there.
When I switch Dirac live off, I often laugh out loud at what it used to sound like before. It’s provided massive benefits in both my living room with active speakers and in my music studio with passive monitors.
As above. But listen to as many speakers as you can up to your maximum budget and get the ones you like the most. The Wiim amp is small and light enough to take with you when auditioning speakers
I’d encourage you to stay away from Zu. They seem like good guys, and their marketing is pretty clever, but the actual speakers are not good. I had the predecessor to the DW6 before discovering this site - I now understand that flat frequency response and controlled directivity are the MINIMUM for accurate sound. I got rid of the Zus and am now enjoying my KEF LS50 Wireless II system immensely (I added 2 KC62 subwoofers, but you might not need them, depending on your space)!
PeterNL
Active Member
Could you provide any measurements before and after ? Mdat would be great.
Especially in such a small room you should spend the majority of the budget on acoustics.
Doing otherwise is pretty much a waste as it will never sound particular good due to high gain reflections and resonances.
Obviously one can also build certain acoustic products yourself and save. But the room needs to be addressed first for quality sound.
Doing otherwise is pretty much a waste as it will never sound particular good due to high gain reflections and resonances.
Obviously one can also build certain acoustic products yourself and save. But the room needs to be addressed first for quality sound.
DanielT
Master Contributor
What you say is correct BUT the biggest challenge in that case probably lies mostly in what type of interior design style the OP likes. Let's say a room with few furniture and a wooden floor:
V.S
A more furnished room:
There will be a (big) difference in the sound in the rooms in the examples above. I know that you, Björn, of course already know this.
In fact, everyone, even those not interested in HiFi, already intuitively knows this. Anyone who has been in a completely unfurnished room with hard wooden floors knows what it sounds like.
I just want to show if and how much you want to compromise with your interior design ideals. About that in itself, I don't know anything about how the OP stands.
A room with few pieces of furniture and a wooden floor, if you don't want to put in large carpets and place various furniture or for that matter acoustic absorbers/diffusers in such a room, well it will be more difficult to get a good sound then. Okay, with EQ you get a long way and if you were to also place line speakers, which go from floor to ceiling and thus reduce problems with floor and ceiling reflections, in that room then you have come a fair bit on the way to good sound.
The problem then is IF such line speakers fit stylistically into the living room and furthermore they are basically only DIY creations (if they are to fit exactly in a specific listening room).
Edit:
Speakers with a narrow dispersion pattern so that the sound is more pinpointed directly directed towards the listener should probably work better in a sparsely furnished room than speakers that spread the sound more widely.
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If a small room has no proper treatment to break up reflections and resonances, no EQ or narrow speaker directivity will save it. Then better to go for head phones
P.S. Treatment doesn't need to look bad and traditonal line arrays really don't work in small rooms.
P.S. Treatment doesn't need to look bad and traditonal line arrays really don't work in small rooms.
A former owner here (of the Gold i.e. top models). I can second this recommendation. It doesn't get cleaner than that, although you'll need to think about connectivity if you're not going to wireless everything. AirPlay works well in my experience with music and TV -- the latter with some automatic latency compensation done by Apple TV in my use case. A direct optical model through Toslink effectively eliminates the latency but you lose all wireless functionality.
You can EQ the Devialet using Roon to tame the inevitable peaks, in case you're wondering.
DanielT
Master Contributor
Nobody has a completely unfurnished living room, it's nothing to live in, so to speak. But for those who like more sparingly furnished living/listening room, it can be problematic, of course.If a small room has no proper treatment to break up reflections and resonances, no EQ or narrow speaker directivity will save it. Then better to go for head phones
P.S. Treatment doesn't need to look bad and traditonal line arrays really don't work in small rooms.
Having said that, large physical bass traps in a small room, well...it undeniably takes up space, so it should be much easier with EQ in the bass area (regarding equalizing the FR). Reverberation time, on the other hand, requires a fair amount of furniture, carpets and or dedicated acoustic fixing stuff. On the other hand, an over-damped room can be experienced as having a boring, dry sound. You have to try yourself.I know you've been in my many threads addressing this topic, I'm just mentioning it to others who read this thread.
Starting from general advice regarding RT60 should be a good starting point.
Reverberation Time in Room Acoustics
Need to measure reverberation time with your sound level meter? Common room acoustics measurements of RT60, T30, T20 explained.
_____
BUT this type of placement of speakers then?:
Anyone has got or had an experience with ultra near field listening?
For about one year my absolute favourite listening setup is an active stereo 3-way (3 separate amplifiers) DIY construction with listening distance of 10-20 cm (depend on the Head position), made from HIFIMAN HE500, Visaton AL-180 for the bass (analogue crossover) and 2 x Dayton Epique E180 via...
audiosciencereview.com
....extreme and then you might as well have headphones BUT top marks to UNF for such wonderful craziness.
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DanielT
Master Contributor
Okay, but what makes the difference between how it sounds in a completely unfurnished small room and a fully furnished ditto?
If you call it an echo effect then? Or the other way around or combination of bouncing sounds that amplify or phase each other out. I'm thinking of the difference in how it sounds when speaking or clapping hands in a completely unfurnished room versus fully furnished ditto.
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- Thread Starter
- #59
Thank you for the information.Many interesting and good speakers. A word of caution about Zu Audio. Their speakers can really color the sound. I would advise you not to buy them unheard. In fact, I would advise you to buy neutral speakers and AFTER that IF you want to color them via EQ. Then you have the opportunity to tinker and fix with FR as you wish and if you get tired of the coloring (many, most, do that after a while) you have your good neutral speakers to return to. Something you can't do with Zu Audio speakers. Or maybe you can EQ them to neutrality if their on and off axes follow each other, but that's such a backwards way of tinkering with speakers. Much better if they are neutral from the start.
Edit
I saw that you are thinking about EQ. Makes sense. Mainly in the lowest frequencies. The room makes a real mess with FR in the bass area. Then EQ is needed.
Keep in mind that the more EQ you do, the more power you need to take out of your amp, so fix enough power. Amplifier power headroom is always good to have.
Say that you perform EQ operations and lower the speaker sensitivity with 3 dB. This means that double the amp power is needed. This applies to passive as well as active speakers.
It might make sense to also have speakers with good power handling in case of EQ operations.
Really, someone has something like this ???Nobody has a completely unfurnished living room, it's nothing to live in, so to speak. But for those who like more sparingly furnished living/listening room, it can be problematic, of course.
Having said that, large physical bass traps in a small room, well...it undeniably takes up space, so it should be much easier with EQ in the bass area (regarding equalizing the FR). Reverberation time, on the other hand, requires a fair amount of furniture, carpets and or dedicated acoustic fixing stuff. On the other hand, an over-damped room can be experienced as having a boring, dry sound. You have to try yourself.I know you've been in my many threads addressing this topic, I'm just mentioning it to others who read this thread.
Starting from general advice regarding RT60 should be a good starting point.
Reverberation Time in Room Acoustics
Need to measure reverberation time with your sound level meter? Common room acoustics measurements of RT60, T30, T20 explained.www.larsondavis.com
_____
BUT this type of placement of speakers then?:
View attachment 370651View attachment 370652
Anyone has got or had an experience with ultra near field listening?
For about one year my absolute favourite listening setup is an active stereo 3-way (3 separate amplifiers) DIY construction with listening distance of 10-20 cm (depend on the Head position), made from HIFIMAN HE500, Visaton AL-180 for the bass (analogue crossover) and 2 x Dayton Epique E180 via...
....extreme and then you might as well have headphones BUT top marks to UNF for such wonderful craziness.
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