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28 inch Squared Flat Subwoofer (ascendo the28) - What is it?

Where are people getting the 40 kW figure?
 
digital_av said:
From the YouTube clip. Did he say 14k instead of 40k? I really heard 40.
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40 kW is a serious amount of power. Their sealed 32" sub has 6 kW of power, so I reckon 14 sounds more realistic.
 
digital_av said:
You may have a "wall" available. That doesn't mean you have a half a meter or a meter depth as well available to place subwoofers. The wall is already used for the LCR loudspeakers and the projector screen/TV. With only 30 cm (12") or 20 cm (8") depth as this subwoofer I think most people could accommodate them between the LCR speakers.
Actually I do. The price may be an issue but I have to see what I can work with the dealer. I've been looking for a shallow subwoofer(less than 35 cm deep) that can do single digits to 120hz with super low distortion and "no compression" at reference levels for quite some time.
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Understood. Except almost any large subwoofer driver is less than 35cm deep. :cool:
B&C, Eminence, SBAudience, Dayton etc. 21" subs are 22-26cm deep. Stereo Integrity 24" subwoofer is 33 cm deep. Here are a couple links:
www.parts-express.com

NEW Eminence NSW6021-124 21" Professional Neodymium Subwoofer

Eminence NSW6021-124 21" Professional Neodymium SubwooferThe NSW6021-124 is one of the most advanced, high-end subwoofers Eminence has to offer. The flexibility to perform in nearly any enclosure and be wired to match the impedance of nearly any amplifier means this subwoofer is unmatched in...
www.parts-express.com

HS-24 – StereoIntegrity.com

stereointegrity.com stereointegrity.com
All of these traditional conical subs I mention have incredible performance and publish specifications including Thiele-Small parameters. I have never seen meaningful measurements or specs published by Ascendo on any of their products which is a major warning flag. Maybe they provide upon request which is fine. Even if Ascendo did publish the specs on this 28" sub, I have no idea how they are solving the structural issues that a square and flat membrane introduce. Also, their claim of operation up to 600Hz is incredibly suspicious on a number of levels.
digital_av said:
Maybe I'm missing something but I couldn't find such thing googling for Marine "subwoofers". I know JL Audio does that but none of them are 18" or more.
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Yes, all shapes and sizes of shallow subs available, each with their own tradeoffs. MTX makes a massive square sub, but it is deep; likely they weren't interested in the negative tradeoffs involved in shallow motor design. Square is a tradeoff which degrades as you get larger due to structural, shallow is a tradeoff which degrades in distortion and linearity due to compromises in the motor. If you absolutely positively have to have a square 28" woofer, then I agree there is no comparable model. Maybe the 12" deep version of this sub is OK, but the 8" deep model of this Ascendo sub will have some massive non-linearities in the motor as previously mentioned, no two ways about it.

I don't think this mega-expensive sub solves any problems for you. If you need huge subs less than 35cm deep, get some Stereo Integrity 24". If you can't create a sealed enclosure in your wall space, they make an infinite baffle version. If I had 35cm depth to work with I would probably get some BMS or JBL 18" to meet my SPL targets, save tens of thousands of dollars. And with 35cm of operating space, you are definitely not in shallow sub territory, and should avoid the problems they introduce.
 
digital_av said:
I got confirmation that it handles 40kw
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Assuming double voice coils it's 2x20 kW peak. And maybe a third to a quarter of that RMS. Still a lot though but not unheard of with car audio subs.

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Old_School_Brad said:
Assuming double voice coils it's 2x20 kW peak. And maybe a third to a quarter of that RMS. Still a lot though but not unheard of with car audio subs.

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I just want to point out that 146dB SPL is enough to damage your hearing right quick - even at low frequencies OSHA exposure limits are ... significantly less than 1 second. This is so loud that it's hard to think of a use for it other than winning a dB drag race. (which I guess this was from.)


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kemmler3D said:
I just want to point out that 146dB SPL is enough to damage your hearing right quick - even at low frequencies OSHA exposure limits are ... significantly less than 1 second. This is so loud that it's hard to think of a use for it other than winning a dB drag race. (which I guess this was from.)


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Off-topic, but that image is completely illegible in dark mode:

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Elitzur–Vaidman said:
Off-topic, but that image is completely illegible in dark mode:

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Yeah for a moment I thought it was just a broken image before I realized what was going on. Bizarre to have an image of text with a transparent background.

But in any case, I think looking at a subwoofer capable of handling 40kW is just bonkers. Unless it's for military use to destroy the enemy's bunker while simultaneously incapacitating their soldiers as their eardrums rupture and they evacuate the contents of their bowels. Right before the sub bursts into flame, anyway, which can then be catapulted at the enemy position just for funzies.
 
kemmler3D said:
I just want to point out that 146dB SPL is enough to damage your hearing right quick - even at low frequencies OSHA exposure limits are ... significantly less than 1 second. This is so loud that it's hard to think of a use for it other than winning a dB drag race. (which I guess this was from.)
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Of course. But it surely can be used at normal levels as well. This is from Williston Audio where he measures how much power the new Kicker Solo sub can handle.
Peak (burst) power can be fascinatingly high. The sub in the OP is nothing revolutionary
 
restorer-john said:
For one cycle perhaps.

Utter and complete bullshit.

@digital_av Please don't parrot/repost this crap on ASR.
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He says it handles that (~40kw) amount of power "without breaking a sweat/no compression". Your skepticism is appreciated. I don't know how to post without to "parrot". I'm just seeking an opinion for a product that matches some of my requirements(powerful shallow subwoofer). To me it is a unique product that's worth discussing.

Fun fact: I just noticed that now googling this product yields this ASR post in the first search result so I think this discussion may provide value to a lot of people.



@MAB provided the most complete feedback I was looking for.

MAB said:
I have never seen meaningful measurements or specs published by Ascendo on any of their products which is a major warning flag.
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What kind of measurements would be needed to figure out if this is a distortion box/gimmick or world class product? They provide CEA2010B for most of their products and I actually thought Ascendo was one of the few that provided meaningful specs/measurements. (i.e. the 18" https://www.aia-cinema.com/products...ASSIVE__SEALED_SHALLOW_Measurement_Report.pdf ).

As far as the pro audio drivers are concerned the main issue is that my wood skills are very poor so I can only buy what's available as a product or at most I can buy flatpacks and handle them to someone to assemble them.

Can any of the drivers you mentioned(i.e Stereo Integrity 24"), placed in a shallow box (i.e 35 cm deep, 700mm x 1000mm), reach 10hz to 120hz at reference levels with minimal distortion and linear(no compression) ?

The only other shallow commercial subwoofers that I'm aware of are:
RTJ 18Sub (JTR's custom install company) measured by audioholics ( https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rtj-18sub )
And the 18" from Ascendo (which provides some measurements as well https://www.aia-cinema.com/products/subwoofers/the18-sub-prp-p-s-sh.html)

However RTJ 18Sub is a bit deeper and I have to import it from the US so extra taxes will be paid.
Ascendo 18 is shallower than what I need.
None of them seem to do infrasonics at reference levels. Both of them seem to distort quite a bit on the low end(not saying that's audible)
 
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digital_av said:
He says it handles that (~40kw) amount of power "without breaking a sweat/no compression". Your skepticism is appreciated. I don't know how to post without to "parrot". I'm just seeking an opinion for a product that matches some of my requirements(powerful shallow subwoofer). To me it is a unique product that's worth discussing.

Fun fact: I just noticed that now googling this product yields this ASR post in the first search result so I think this discussion may provide value to a lot of people.



@MAB provided the most complete feedback I was looking for.


What kind of measurements would be needed to figure out if this is a distortion box/gimmick or world class product? They provide CEA2010B for most of their products and I actually thought Ascendo was one of the few that provided meaningful specs/measurements. (i.e. the 18" https://www.aia-cinema.com/products...ASSIVE__SEALED_SHALLOW_Measurement_Report.pdf ).
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I didn't see this, and sorry for missing, clearly published at the bottom of each page. My bad.:facepalm:
Yes, very helpful, and gives some confidence and provides a decent reference for performance. Looking at the CEA-2010 data, looks like the various Ascendo subs are comparable to top-shelf sealed units from various manufacturers. For instance, the 18" sealed subwoofer looks like a great sub, and comparable to other sealed 18" subs from great manufacturers in the same box. The dual 18" sealed subwoofer looks like the single 18" sub with twice the output (+6dB), which is exactly expected. The 24" sub has measurements very much inline with a sealed sub with a cone that is 78% larger than their 18" cone. And also comparable to the Stereo Integrity 24" sub in a sealed box that I mentioned earlier. And the 32" sub measurements are also as expected, since it has twice the cone area as the 24".
1726160552812.png

I might take small issue with their CEA "MAX Passed", but I shouldn't nitpick. Each of the published CEA2010 data from their subs scale +6dB for each doubling of driver area. Depending on the size of your room, your target SPL, and how many subs you are going to use, additional EQ to manage room and preference and application, these subs will work very well by the manufacturer's published results. And appear to be very comparable to some of the raw drivers I mentioned earlier.
digital_av said:
As far as the pro audio drivers are concerned the main issue is that my wood skills are very poor so I can only buy what's available as a product or at most I can buy flatpacks and handle them to someone to assemble them.
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This is tricky. All of these subs need to be in a cabinet, if the wall is the cabinet, it will have to have similar structural integrity as a well-built subwoofer. While building a subwoofer isn't complicated, it does require some thought and skill and these subs operate in a power regime similar to a small internal combustion engine (40kW is 53 Horsepower, not that HP is a particularly intuitive unit of measure... ;) ) If you have ever seen videos of auto-sound subs with tens of kW, it can blow out the windows:
The options you are considering operate in this regime. I would recommend a cabinet maker. For example, a co-member at the local woodworker club I belong to has built several sub and speaker cabinets for clients.

digital_av said:
Can any of the drivers you mentioned(i.e Stereo Integrity 24"), placed in a shallow box (i.e 35 cm deep, 700mm x 1000mm), reach 10hz to 120hz at reference levels with minimal distortion and linear(no compression) ?
Click to expand...
Yes. Assuming the Ascendo data is comparable to the Stereo Integrity 24" data, it looks like both will perform very similar in same sealed box.
1726165975804.png

These are Ascendo's CEA2010, with some independent Stereo Integrity 24" and JTR Captivator measurements. While I can't guarantee that Ascendo's measurements are apples to apples with the other data, the two 24" sealed are comparable. And I hope you can see why the JTR are also awesome, and the 4000 is simply ~6dB louder than the smaller 2400 so two 2400 are equivalent to one 4000. I hope you appreciate, all of this scales with the area of the drivers. The 32" sealed is the same as three sealed 18" for raw SPL and extension.

The JTR captivators take 18" woofers and use cabinet to extend the response. Sealed can be EQ'ed to similar EQ, or whatever your room and preference desire at the expense of peak SLP. My goal here is to show you can use multiple smaller subs to achieve the same SPL and extension. Using the same reasoning, Ascendo's 32" is likely equivalent to their 28" square in terms of raw output. It's likely the 28" square has a few compromises compared to the 32" cone, but this is speculation. For instance, I have a hunch the 28" square driver compromised on sensitivity compared to the cone driver.
digital_av said:
The only other shallow commercial subwoofers that I'm aware of are:
RTJ 18Sub (JTR's custom install company) measured by audioholics ( https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rtj-18sub )
And the 18" from Ascendo (which provides some measurements as well https://www.aia-cinema.com/products/subwoofers/the18-sub-prp-p-s-sh.html)

However RTJ 18Sub is a bit deeper and I have to import it from the US so extra taxes will be paid.
Ascendo 18 is shallower than what I need.
None of them seem to do infrasonics at reference levels. Both of them seem to distort quite a bit on the low end(not saying that's audible)
Click to expand...
For each three Ascendo 18, you get approximately the SPL vs. extension of one 32". I personally like multiple distributed subs. I also like subs that are able to be moved. This is because the room dictates the bass response way more than I can comment on here. And Ascendo makes single and dual versions of the 18". Can you do three of those? Or even multiple dual 18? If needed they can be built into soffit cutouts. The small form factor would allow many configurations. The more you add, the more headroom to flatten the response below 20Hz further.
 
MAB said:
If you have ever seen videos of auto-sound subs with tens of kW, it can blow out the windows
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Sure but for how long can it run? Seconds, maybe minutes. Running that vs a 40kW sub doing club duty all night at full tilt are two very different things.
 
Calculating 40 KW for 230 V means 174 Ampere (double for pour american 115) .... :facepalm::cool::p
 
Salt said:
Calculating 40 KW for 230 V means 174 Ampere (double for pour american 115) .... :facepalm::cool::p
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Us poor Americans actually have split-phase 240V, so nyah :p

174A is still basically the entire capacity of the main breaker on even newer homes.
 
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