Sgt. Ear Ache
Major Contributor
The good old "night and day difference" rears it's ugly head yet again! 
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250 hours and 5 day ‘settling in’!
- Thread starter Purité Audio
- Start date
I completely get the night and day thing. After a night of drinking, things sound much different the next day.
Hugo9000
Addicted to Fun and Learning
The speakers would now have a different orientation with regard to the magnetic poles of the earth, obviously. A lesser cause of concern (approximately 4.8% of the total effect of the move by one meter) is the movement/change of position of the speaker cables necessitated by moving the loudspeakers.
/s (sadly, probably needed, although it should have been obvious lol)
The thing I can't understand is if there really is a night and day difference, veils are lifted, listeners are moved two rows forward blah blah blah why do those promoting all this stuff have anxiety attacks and run away from confirming it in a double blind test? If it's that night and day veil liftingly obvious a double blind test would be a formality surely?
D
Deleted member 4987
Guest
When I bought my last amplifier ( Rega elex R) I was horrified when I turned it on, even my wife ( a real wife, not one of those imaginary audiophile wives) said 'Omg how much did you spend on that?' 15 minutes later it was fine. Is there any actual science behind this?
When I bought my last speakers the salesman warned me that they'd take X hours to sound O.K. I must be deaf as they sounded fine out of the box and continue to sound fine.
When I bought my last speakers the salesman warned me that they'd take X hours to sound O.K. I must be deaf as they sounded fine out of the box and continue to sound fine.
Yes. Psychology.
That's clever, Hans.
I guess there are multiple reasons these myths persist:
-Expectation management, it avoids customers being too peeved when their new toy doesn't sound as splendid as they hoped for, and the "burn in" time lets them adjust to the sound and all the while blame the hardware rather than accept that they are just adjusting to a new sound signature;
-It's all part of the golden eared culture and being part of the tribe, as with a lot of these things the subjectivist bubble fosters a sense of being part of a herd and being above outsiders who lack the discernment to recognise the importance of burn in and all that. I'll admit that when I was into all that stuff I found the belief that I'd been blessed with a superior sense of hearing that gave me insights into sound that lesser mortals lacked rather satisfying. Now I know it was self deception and psychological trickery but it felt real at the time and all helps inflate the bubble;
-To many people it makes perfect sense. After all if engines have a run in period, newly plastered house walls settling period etc etc then surely hifi gear would also need to burn in. The fact that in other cases there are real reasons for an initial period of running in, settling, warming up and equalising expansion etc which are irrelevant in a speaker or something is lost on non technical types; and
-In some cases it is dishonest but I'm sure there are also plenty of manufacturers who believe it, after all it seems clear that quite a few of them aren't the brightest bulbs in terms of technical knowledge and scientific attainment.
And no doubts lots more. The one that makes sense but not in the way audiophiles believe is the first one. It is normal and not at all a bad thing to grow into a new sound over a couple of weeks (no different to developing a taste for new food or music etc over time) but it has nothing to do with hardware burn in. Even though there are audio companies who tell customers this and are honest about it for some reason many audio buffs would rather ignore all that and still cling to the idea of hardware burn in. Odd.
-Expectation management, it avoids customers being too peeved when their new toy doesn't sound as splendid as they hoped for, and the "burn in" time lets them adjust to the sound and all the while blame the hardware rather than accept that they are just adjusting to a new sound signature;
-It's all part of the golden eared culture and being part of the tribe, as with a lot of these things the subjectivist bubble fosters a sense of being part of a herd and being above outsiders who lack the discernment to recognise the importance of burn in and all that. I'll admit that when I was into all that stuff I found the belief that I'd been blessed with a superior sense of hearing that gave me insights into sound that lesser mortals lacked rather satisfying. Now I know it was self deception and psychological trickery but it felt real at the time and all helps inflate the bubble;
-To many people it makes perfect sense. After all if engines have a run in period, newly plastered house walls settling period etc etc then surely hifi gear would also need to burn in. The fact that in other cases there are real reasons for an initial period of running in, settling, warming up and equalising expansion etc which are irrelevant in a speaker or something is lost on non technical types; and
-In some cases it is dishonest but I'm sure there are also plenty of manufacturers who believe it, after all it seems clear that quite a few of them aren't the brightest bulbs in terms of technical knowledge and scientific attainment.
And no doubts lots more. The one that makes sense but not in the way audiophiles believe is the first one. It is normal and not at all a bad thing to grow into a new sound over a couple of weeks (no different to developing a taste for new food or music etc over time) but it has nothing to do with hardware burn in. Even though there are audio companies who tell customers this and are honest about it for some reason many audio buffs would rather ignore all that and still cling to the idea of hardware burn in. Odd.
invaderzim
Senior Member
I think there is something fun about being in-the-know about something that most people don't know about. Who doesn't want to be part of the group of audiophiles that are at the level where they know about equipment burn in and electrons traveling on the outside of the wire.
Every day I try to learn a bit more about the actual workings of audio electronics and how things interact. It is not a quick learning process. By comparison learning myths and the loosely related facts that power them is easy and impressive.
If I tell someone the affect of bias current on a transistor in an amp they won't be impressed. And even less so if I tell them that to improve the sound of their system they will need to buy better speakers and maybe a better amp.
But if I tell someone that is into audio that the structure of the copper in the wire in a power cord as well as the way it is insulated and intertwined can make an amplifier sound better only a small portion are going to think I'm an idiot and the rest will want to know more about how to improve their system by just changing wires.
This shouldn't be possible as breaking in is a myth. See Amir's post:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tudio-monitor-review.10897/page-8#post-305666
Then I am wondering now if you just got used to their sound, then does this mean that Dynaudio Emit M20s sound muddy?
decoRyder
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It shouldn't be possible by any consensus explanation, but I will have to insist that that is exactly what's happened. I didn't get 'used' to anything, since I did not listen to them while they were broken in.
The M20's are fantastic speakers, except for a problem specific to Dynaudio - 'whoofer slap', and the fact that when new, they sound very 'flat' without any dynamics.
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Thing is, its already very well known, and is referred to as the bath tub curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve
Also there are certain components that can be measured changing their parameters, rather than viewed as problematic the changes they make are wholly beneficial and can, with a little imagination, be put to very good use in circuits.
"Oh yeah? Which way?"
Here's a reference for future arguments, the names change whether they're going from night to day, or day to night.
Still i'm wonderig how Many ASR members leave their amp on. My habit is to put it on early in the morning when i'm to listen later in the Day. Sometimes it's on for days. Probably an expectation thing regarding it performance.
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jsrtheta
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I only turn it on each day when I'm about to listen to it. But then I leave it on, because of some ancient belief that leaving it on burns less energy than turning it off and then on again. Or maybe that the stress on the amplifier suffers from frequent turn on/turn offs. And I don't know if that's true, or I can't even cite where I learned that.
Audiophilia from an idiot.
Exactly suffering from frequent turn on/turn off is told to me already 40 years ago. I don't have a clue if that is true.
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Sgt. Ear Ache
Major Contributor
Once I turn my amp on, I'll leave it on if I feel like there's a good chance I'll be listening again within some reasonable period of time. But if I think I'm done for several hours I turn it off. I also always zero the volume before turning it off and don't touch the volume knob till it's powered up again. I just hate hearing pops and such and it feels like a gentle way to operate the electronics...and the amp is 40 years old so I try and baby it.
Theo
Active Member
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I leave it on because I have to crawl to the back to reach the on-off switch... And, as it is a class D amp, not much energy drain.
In the past, when I used to believe stuff you read in HIFI reviews, I did leave my class A amps on (2 MA50 mono blocks) because they were supposed to be warm (hot?) before they sounded right. And, I was able to certify that it was true, night and day like... And class A is so much better
! Until one day I noticed how much distortion they were producing on a clean guitar track, an eye opener! The track was clean when I listened with my headphones using a different amp. So I sold the mono blocks....
In the past, when I used to believe stuff you read in HIFI reviews, I did leave my class A amps on (2 MA50 mono blocks) because they were supposed to be warm (hot?) before they sounded right
. And, I was able to certify that it was true, night and day like... And class A is so much better! Until one day I noticed how much distortion they were producing on a clean guitar track, an eye opener! The track was clean when I listened with my headphones using a different amp. So I sold the mono blocks....
Maybe if you move them very carefully the speakers don't notice itIf you move them they need another 5 day period? You are going to grow old and die before you figure out where to put them.
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