2019 Thorens New Reel to Reel Deck

[watchnerd]

Thorens has announced their intent to launch a new reel to reel deck, the TM 1600, to compliment their new direct drive turntable:

https://www.stereonet.co.uk/news/th...rect-drive-turntable-and-more-ahead-of-munich

Expected price of 12,000 GBP.

Will Technics follow suit and launch re-editions of their classic RTR decks to match their reborn SP10 and SL-1200 direct drive TT series?

Will Revox get back into the game?

Judging by the ever-increasing price for used vintage RTR decks, the demand seems to be there.

 

[sergeauckland]

I'm not impressed, looks far more style over substance. I know it's not in production yet, but the brief blurb on the Thorens website doesn't give me any confidence it's a serious product. Don't see any metering or mention of its record capabilities, just being able to play prerecorded tapes.

Is there a market for a reel to reel tape recorder that doesn't record?

S

 

[Vincent Kars]

It is a rebadged Ballfinger: http://www.ballfinger.de/

In the past the taperecorder was our analog ripper.That's how we copied out friends records, bootlegged concerts, etc.
No need for a analog ripper today
A playback only R2R is basically what a TT does, delivering us good old analog distortion at a very high price tag

 

[amirm]

With blank tapes at $60 and pre-recorded starting at $200, I don't see any major brand to get into manufacturing these completed products.

 

[Blumlein 88]

With blank tapes at $60 and pre-recorded starting at $200, I don't see any major brand to get into manufacturing these completed products.

Those prices aren't too incredibly off inflation adjusted for what they were in 1960 actually. A 1960 dollar would equal $8.59 today. So these prices up higher, but not incredibly so considering the limited production nature.

 

[watchnerd]

I
Is there a market for a reel to reel tape recorder that doesn't record?

S

Yes, for those pre-recorded 15 IPS tapes being issued by Tape Project, Acoustic Sounds, and similar. Some are NAB, most seem to be CCIR.

I have a few such reels, as well as vintage production masters, but I also record stuff, too.

 

[watchnerd]

With blank tapes at $60 and pre-recorded starting at $200, I don't see any major brand to get into manufacturing these completed products.

Major brand? Probably right.

But for niche affluent customers, boutique audiophilia seems to be turning out a lot of products in the $20K+ per component space and the rags have been cooing for a while now about how RTR is "the best analog possible" and sometimes "the best source possible" (i.e. better than digital).

Looking at the used market, one of the constraints has been the supply of refurbished vintage decks in good working order, at pretty much any price.

I probably wouldn't pay $15k for a new reissue RTR deck, but I wouldn't really hesitate to drop $5k on a reissue deck if it had specs on par with a good refurbished vintage one.

 

[Ron Texas]

At 12,000 GBP, I'll pass. I don't know who really want's one of these. Perhaps someone with a library of prerecorded tapes does.

 

[watchnerd]

A playback only R2R is basically what a TT does, delivering us good old analog distortion at a very high price tag

RTR does sound different than vinyl. And it's less finnicky over the long run than TT setup with different cartridges and alignments, although tape level setting and head alignment are a PITA in their own right.

But it's really the wow factor that makes it worth it. I have a pretty dramatic looking TT (Michell Gyro SE) which gets lots of admiring looks, but my Revox PR99 gets a lot more "Holy crap!" because most people have never seen one in person before, ever in their lives.

Yes, it's expensive....but not as expensive as the most expensive TTs these days, and has better specs.

 

[watchnerd]

At 12,000 GBP, I'll pass. I don't know who really want's one of these. Perhaps someone with a library of prerecorded tapes does.

It's for people who are buying these:

https://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&saleid=462

https://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&saleid=513

 

[watchnerd]

Those prices aren't too incredibly off inflation adjusted for what they were in 1960 actually. A 1960 dollar would equal $8.59 today. So these prices up higher, but not incredibly so considering the limited production nature.

The bigger constraint than tape cost is duplication time.

 

[Ron Texas]

It's for people who are buying these:

https://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&saleid=462

https://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&saleid=513

I suppose one who has $450 for a tape can afford 12K GBP for a player.

 

[watchnerd]

I suppose one who has $450 for a tape can afford 12K GBP for a player.

Sometimes you even get 2 reels for $450.....

 

[sergeauckland]

Yes, for those pre-recorded 15 IPS tapes being issued by Tape Project, Acoustic Sounds, and similar. Some are NAB, most seem to be CCIR.

I have a few such reels, as well as vintage production masters, but I also record stuff, too.

I'd just buy the CD..........

S

 

[Soniclife]

RTR does sound different than vinyl.

But does it sound different from CD?

 

[Ron Texas]

But does it sound different from CD?

Would there be a higher noise floor?

 

[tmtomh]

12,000GBP is insane. Converting to USD and then back to 1979 dollars (I just picked that year at random), that would've been $4600US - insanely high even for higher-end stuff back at that time.

If Thorens can sell a small number of these units to a super-niche set of wealthy buyers, good for them I guess - I mean, there apparently are people who buy $25k DACs, right?

 

[sergeauckland]

But does it sound different from CD?

Higher noise floor depends on the recording. Vintage recordings, whether classical or Beatles or Led Zeppelin will have been recorded on tape. If with Dolby, then the noise floor will be low enough not to be noticeable. If without Dolby, then classical recordings will have tape hiss on the quiet bits, not so noticeable on the louder bits. Rock/Pop less noticeable due to compression, but still audible if listening for it. (House of the Rising Sun, Animals) for instance. On the other hand, Telstar by the Tornadoes is recorded at peak level all the way through, so tape hiss isn't noticeable even without Dolby. Anything recorded on digital tape, even early on, like Bop Till You Drop, won't have any audible hiss.

CDs won't necessarily sound any better due to the limitations of the source material, although a lot can be done these days with DSP noise reduction.

S.

 

[DuxServit]

Now if we could only add DSD to the R2R and charge an extra 12,000GBP, the world would be a better place

 

[amirm]

But does it sound different from CD?

I can't find the CD masters that I have on tape. The tape versions sound substantially better than the variations I have tried in digital. They have really screwed up the mastering for digital releases.