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2012 Absolute Sound review of the Steinway Lyngdorf Model S amp/speaker system

amadeuswus

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https://www.geckohomecinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Steinway-Model-S-Review.pdf

I am not shopping in this price bracket by any means, but I am searching for a reasonably priced "on-wall" speaker for a family room. This review by Robert Greene of TAS makes a strong case for the virtues of dsp'd on-wall satellite speakers coupled with time-aligned woofer cabinets in the room corners. Has anyone here heard this system?
 

3ll3d00d

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I have, a few times, always in the context of a system costing well into 6 figures in total though so a bit tricky to relate this to a reasonably priced system :)
 

Snarfie

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I realy wonder how long it will take that DSP hardware solutions like Dirac, Lyngdorf an others will be obsolete. If i'm correct any laptop/pc or Raspberry Pi (volumio) that can run a clever DSP algo will manage to get the same correction done or mabey better because there updates an development time is less they don't have to bother regarding hardware/development. The only thing you need if you don't want to use a pc/laptop or Raspberry is a Minidsp where you upload your measurments with REW (for free).
I'm using a laptop with Mathaudio Room EQ incombination with Foobar 2000 for free which does the job for me an sounds realy well (compared to Lyngdorf which set me 4000,- euro back) an i got multiple updates a year for Free.
 
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3ll3d00d

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That is already the case, those products exist today to run on a pc. Mostly it is DRM (for films) and convenience/ease of use that pushes towards DSP hardware.
 
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amadeuswus

amadeuswus

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Just to clarify, I am more intrigued by the speaker architecture of the Model S system (the wall-optimized radiation pattern of the S-15 satellites, coupled with corner woofers crossed over at a high 300hz) than by Lyngdorf's hardware-based RoomPerfect. Amir seemed to have been impressed by RoomPerfect in one of his amplifier reviews, but I am guessing that one could get as good or better results by running PC-based room-and-speaker correction like Acourate. Then you wouldn't need Steinway Lyngdorf's expensive processor and amp, which probably do not even measure all that well.
https://www.audiovero.de/en/acourate.php
 

badboygolf16v

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I used to have Lyngdorf 2 X TDAI2200 with Roomperfect, 2 X W210 with DP-1 or Jamo Concert 8 so can't comment on wall mounted speakers.

The bass was excellent. The SR-71 on the Sonic Booms test disc sounded like it was flying down the street outside my house.
 

Stephan

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I've heard them on multiple occasions, with mixed results. Sometimes bad, sometimes excellent. Last year I started to look a little closer at Steinway systems, because I had to give up my larger HT room and moved my Meridian speakers (7.2k) into the living room. They do really well there, but are really large and are a little ugly to look at. The Steinways are much nicer from a design/size point of view. I was also looking at options for a new, smaller HT room (I've always had two systems, both multichannel).

Late last year I had the chance to get a home demo of the Model M to do a direct comparison. As far as design goes, it's hard to go wrong with Steinway, from an audio point of view the Meridians did everything the Model M did, just a little better. In the end, the difference in quality was enough for me to live with the large and "ugly" speakers instead of really nice looking on-walls, so I didn't make the switch. It probably wasn't a fair comparison and one of the freestanding Steinway speakers would have been a better match, but I was specifically looking at the S/M. That doesn't make them bad, they're still really good speakers. Just keep in mind what you get with these, it's a closed system, so you need the full chain and these are not "fully digital" speakers. The digital XO is between the woofer and the satellites, but the latter are still regular "analogue" speakers.
In the end, if on-wall with little depth is a must have and you don't plan to mix components from different manufacturers, you can't go wrong with these.

Most on-walls that are excellent performers are not exactly eye candy, so choices are limited. When looking at Steinway, also look at Lyngdorf or maybe the on-wall speakers from Audiovector. Alot of people who looked at the Model S, but didn't go for it for whatever reason, went with Audiovector and said it's very close to the Model S experience.
 
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amadeuswus

amadeuswus

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Just keep in mind what you get with these, it's a closed system, so you need the full chain and these are not "fully digital" speakers.
Hi Stephan,
Thanks for your listening notes. I did wonder whether it's possible to jailbreak out of the Steinway Lyngdorf "closed system" by getting just the S-15 speakers (which are expensive but not crazy expensive as the controller and digital amp are) and rolling one's own speaker/room correction and cheap analog amplification. From the Robert Greene review, it would seem that the strengths of this system would be preserved if you can get the correction right.
 

aarons915

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I bought the Revel S16 a few years back to get an idea of the Revel sound and they were very good, if I were looking for an on wall setup I would definitely audition them.
 
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amadeuswus

amadeuswus

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I bought the Revel S16 a few years back to get an idea of the Revel sound and they were very good, if I were looking for an on wall setup I would definitely audition them.
Hi aarons915,
Thanks for the suggestion. I see that Amir has just reviewed the Revel M16, which outwardly looks similar. I imagine that the on-wall S16 would be tuned without the mid-bass hump since it's getting the wall reinforcement already.
 

Stephan

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I did wonder whether it's possible to jailbreak out of the Steinway Lyngdorf "closed system" by getting just the S-15 speakers (which are expensive but not crazy expensive as the controller and digital amp are) and rolling one's own speaker/room correction and cheap analog amplification.
You're not the only one. I've done a fair bit of research, not just for Steinway, but also other manufacturers that try to lock you into their ecosystem, such as Wisdom, JBL and Alcons.
Wisdom is nice enough to give all the required data to your dealer, so you won't need their controllers. They've showed this with Datasat where all the filters and XO were put into the processor. JBL provides speaker profiles for the SDP and BLU processors, as well as their amps. You can also extract correction profiles via the Architect software. People have done so for the 7-series and the M2. Alcons, no such luck. You want to run Alcons speakers, you buy the Sentinel amps.

For Steinway, no public knowledge is available if and what type of correction they run in their processor and/or amps. Physically, you can use any type of amp for the S15, but who knows how it will sound. Would be interesting to get a Steinway system into the hands of someone who can do a full set of measurements, full Steinway chain vs speaker only powered by whatever amp. Doubt it will happen.
Another problem is, you will have a really hard time finding a dealer willing to sell only the speakers. These are sold as complete packages. And even if you tell the dealer that you already have a system and want to expand it, Steinway dealers don't just ship the stuff to you. They will show up at your door and will do the installation/setup/calibration for you. That's part of the deal. If you refuse, no sale. At least, that's the experience I've had with Steinway dealers. Maybe it's different in the US.

To be fair to Steinway, the prices for the S/M series and even electronics are not "out of this world". The A2 amp retails for €6.800,- + VAT. That isn't cheap, but far from audiophile-expensive. Same for the P200 (there's a P300 now) processor, retails for €14k, which is similar to Storm Audio and Trinnov.

Are you looking into a 2-channel or multichannel system?
 
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amadeuswus

amadeuswus

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For Steinway, no public knowledge is available if and what type of correction they run in their processor and/or amps. Physically, you can use any type of amp for the S15, but who knows how it will sound. Would be interesting to get a Steinway system into the hands of someone who can do a full set of measurements, full Steinway chain vs speaker only powered by whatever amp. Doubt it will happen.
Another problem is, you will have a really hard time finding a dealer willing to sell only the speakers. These are sold as complete packages. And even if you tell the dealer that you already have a system and want to expand it, Steinway dealers don't just ship the stuff to you. They will show up at your door and will do the installation/setup/calibration for you. That's part of the deal. If you refuse, no sale. At least, that's the experience I've had with Steinway dealers. Maybe it's different in the US.

Wow... that's quite a restrictive way to market the system. I had no idea dealers might refuse to sell just the speakers.

I am only putting together a two-channel system. I do have some Lyngdorf W210 corner woofers that aren't in use, but unfortunately they would not fit the little family room in question. My curiosity in the Steinway on-wall system started from reading the Robert Greene review, which is pretty hosanna-filled for him. But I will have to settle for more modest speakers. Maybe the Revel that aarons915 mentioned, or something similar. Thanks for your comment.
 
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GelbeMusik

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I am not shopping in this price bracket by any means, but ...

I was stoned to death by some DIY tribe when I suggested on-wall speakers. But actually these have some advantages. Best to place them on different, connected walls (if You live rectangular). It gives some extra toe in, and, at least psychologically, would give a deeper sound stage.
 
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amadeuswus

amadeuswus

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I was stoned to death by some DIY tribe when I suggested on-wall speakers. But actually these have some advantages. Best to place them on different, connected walls (if You live rectangular). It gives some extra toe in, and, at least psychologically, would give a deeper sound stage.

As another member here documented with measurements of a different on-wall speaker (a Revel), having a really big baffle (the wall) can help!

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-3600-speaker-review.13027/page-8#post-392535
 
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