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20 meter between PC <> DAC

Blumlein 88

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I linked the 20m version above which has 2 signal amplifiers, but I'm really curious about how is the data transmission over this distance. Best would be to verify the digital output of the DAC via an optical input board and compare for bit perfectness.
I have done the bit perfect test on a few of the active extenders. Bit perfect. I've got one I use that is 15 meters, and have used them at 25 meters. No problems. These do drop voltage just a bit. That is why if the DAC is USB powered it might have issues, but for signal transmission works for DACs, printers, etc etc.

Another option if the DAC has coax SPDIF is to use one of the good USB to SPDIF converters (Douk Audio U2) and then use some RG59 or RG6 cable to the DAC. I think coax digital is good to 100 feet or maybe it was 100 meters.
 

Vincent Kars

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If it will do a printer and all the other things listed at the 20m cable webpage then it'll do audio.
No. Printers and their like can work with USB at Low Speed or Full Speed.
Modern DAC's use UAC2 for audio so need High Speed (480 Mb/s).
So whatever you buy, make sure High Speed is supported.

According to the standard Toslink is gapped at 10 m. In practice they might do better.
$40 gets you a decent converter: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ments-digital-usb-to-s-pdif-interfaces.29765/

SPDIF over coax can do 10m: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF
The AES3 unbalanced 100m according to the same source.

As others suggested, a small computer e.q. a mobile being remote controlled might do the job as well.
 

voodooless

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According to the standard Toslink is gapped at 10 m.
I think that’s for the plastic cables. You can get glass Toslink cables that should support longer lengths. Also more pure plastic cables are available that should also work > 10m
 

Blumlein 88

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No. Printers and their like can work with USB at Low Speed or Full Speed.
Modern DAC's use UAC2 for audio so need High Speed (480 Mb/s).
So whatever you buy, make sure High Speed is supported.

According to the standard Toslink is gapped at 10 m. In practice they might do better.
$40 gets you a decent converter: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ments-digital-usb-to-s-pdif-interfaces.29765/

SPDIF over coax can do 10m: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF
The AES3 unbalanced 100m according to the same source.

As others suggested, a small computer e.q. a mobile being remote controlled might do the job as well.
I wonder about that 10 meter coax limit. I've used beyond that many times. I've used Toslink longer too, but it depends upon the gear if it works or not. At longer lengths you only get it to work at 48 khz. But I suppose that is the official standard.
 

MCH

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Hi, how would you recommend connecting a PC with a DAC which is 20 meters away?

AFAIK, I have two options:
- active USB 2.0 cables
- Toslink cables

With both solutions I'm worried about if there is degradation in jitter and also bit-loss.

Also, for the Toslink cable, I'd need to basically buy a USB-DAC or a DAC like device which is converting from USB to Toslink. Do you have any recommendations for such devices? From what I found they are almost as expensive as "real" DACs, so it's a bit pointless at that point.
Don't know the details of your case, but one advantage of the WiFi connection others suggested is that you might be able to control the playback from where the DAC is, that I guess is closer to where you'll be listening. Just guessing.
 

Blumlein 88

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It might help if the OP told us which DAC it is.

As for converting USB to Toslink being expensive, the Douk Audio U2 will do it for $50 or so. Tested I think by Amir and I know Vintage Flanker here.
 

JeremyFife

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Second the suggestion to do away with cable and just stream over WiFi. A basic WiiM mini will receive that cheaply and well.
 
OP
H

hyperknot

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Thanks for the help! There is already a Raspberry Pi based streamer, it's fiddly, doesn't work with Spotify, YouTube, etc. I'm definitely looking for a PC based solution, no streamers.

DAC is a Soncoz SGD1, it has all kind of inputs. (I don't want to use the AES as it'd make it very difficult to replace this DAC).
index.php


1. So the simplest solution would be to buy one of those active USB 2.0 cables with signal amplifiers and see if it works.
2. Second solution would be to buy a Douk U2 and use either optical or coax cable. Is coax better for longer lengths? I thought optical is always the way to go for long lengths (under-sea cables, etc.)
 

TurtlePaul

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What type of PC do you have? I was able to get something like this to work with my motherboard to power a 25 ft SPDIF connection over RCA:

 

Sokel

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Once I measured my (self powered) DAC with such cables.
2 of them was 5m,1 of them 10m and "active" .

One of the 5 meter ones measured fine,the other didn't do DSD.
The 10 meter one didn't do DSD and when measured PCM I think I caught my 50 meters apart neighbors cleaning with their vacuum cleaner :facepalm: (I'm joking but it was terrible) .

The whole point I did all that was because I wanted to measure stuff as is,and it turned out that even 6m (mogami ) unbalanced cable was WAY better,almost identical to a 1m one,so I kept digital one short and went this way.

Choose carefully.

Edit:I'm talking about USB cables,I don't do coax or optical.
 

dualazmak

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I've used the USB extenders up to 25 meters. No problems even at 192k rates.

Nice to know your successful case.
Let me ask you which USB extender cables did/do you use for 25 m operation?
 

dualazmak

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Chazz6

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If you have wi-fi, your solution is a receiving device to feed the DAC, like one from Wiim or the Denon HEOS Link2; Minimserver software on the PC; and BubbleUpNP control software on an Android device.

If you do not have wi-fi, you'll probably need it in the near future for something else, too.
 

pderousse

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You could also use a SFP+ card + module on the pc-side with a multi-mode fiber optic patch cable run (c. $25), and then a TCP-ip fiber to rj45 module (c. $40), Ethernet cable to DAC. I have this in a roughly 50’ run, could be 200’ or more…. Others are more knowledgeable on how all this works, but there can be no risk of bit-loss or jitter, because the devices are connected and separated by 50’ of glass.
 
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