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$20-25k budget. Currently eyeing Genelec 8361A, KEF Blade One Meta, and the B&W 801D4.

Anyway, that's not why I came here. I think this is a nice choice, @totaldominasian I, myself, wouldn't go for B&W until they make it more flat frequency response and in that sense, I wonder how come you chose between very accurate and audibly not really accurate? What is your real preference?

Another thing is, these amp ratings in active speakers keep confusing me. Genelec you mention has 1000 watts. There's a 150 watts for the tweeter... OTOH we have thousand of posts on how you don't benefit from idle power and how even headroom is completely covered by a good, solid 150 w per channel into 8 ohms...

How come this Genelec needs 1kW and I'm more than covered by a 100?

It could be as easy re-using modules. It might be cheaper / logistically cheaper for them to use an existing 100W module than develop a smaller one.
 
It could be as easy re-using modules. It might be cheaper / logistically cheaper for them to use an existing 100W module than develop a smaller one.
Just to make this clear, they are using 1kW and they DO have other modules.

More importantly, it's not the case because some of those modules are being developed for the speaker so they are also new.

And the sensitivity calculator is also not an explanation bc half of that, 500w/ch into 8ohm would cover you much more than needed for stated short term 118dB.

If it was so obvious, I wouldn't ask. Don't underestimate me, please.
 
Just to make this clear, they are using 1kW and they DO have other modules.

More importantly, it's not the case because some of those modules are being developed for the speaker so they are also new.

And the sensitivity calculator is also not an explanation bc half of that, 500w/ch into 8ohm would cover you much more than needed for stated short term 118dB.

If it was so obvious, I wouldn't ask. Don't underestimate me, please.
Peak 124 dB?
 
Just to make this clear, they are using 1kW and they DO have other modules.

More importantly, it's not the case because some of those modules are being developed for the speaker so they are also new.

And the sensitivity calculator is also not an explanation bc half of that, 500w/ch into 8ohm would cover you much more than needed for stated short term 118dB.

If it was so obvious, I wouldn't ask. Don't underestimate me, please.

They're using 700 + 150 + 150 in the 8361 if I understand the specs correctly. It's not one 1kW module. The tweeter definitely doesn't need 150W. For the other drivers it's harder to tell, but 700W seems a lot too. Depends how it's specified too. 1W can mean many different things if not further specified. :)
 
They're using 700 + 150 + 150 in the 8361 if I understand the specs correctly. It's not one 1kW module. The tweeter definitely doesn't need 150W. For the other drivers it's harder to tell, but 700W seems a lot too. Depends how it's specified too. 1W can mean many different things if not further specified. :)
Definitely not my area of expertise but is there a self-noise advantage by running a higher power class D amp on the tweeter at lower gain vs. a lower power amp at higher gain?
 
Definitely not my area of expertise but is there a self-noise advantage by running a higher power class D amp on the tweeter at lower gain vs. a lower power amp at higher gain?

Possibly.
 
That would cause most speakers to burn out. ;)
103dB is not much if we are talking about peak levels. With good dynamic range of music this is the equivalent of 88dB average. Well made speakers should be capable to reach peaks at 110dB all day long.
 
This would be easier for you if you provided some evidence to support it.
i could say the same thing to you. hundreds of thousands of people have made claims over the decades that speakers relax after some use and exercising the suspension and suspension rubber.

then there's you.

that one guy, who asks for evidence but cant establish any at all, that working in a mechanical device doesn't relax it...... cool story dude.
 
What is there that is going to affect the sound enough to be detectable? The surround suspension and the spider is there. Otherwise the other stuff is not going to change.
i mean clearly things like the cone and coils arent exactly going to be mechanically affected. however there are suspension sections added to some speakers, rubber outsides, and other contacting components that have a rigidity. i feel like you're asking questions to troll. i shouldn't be having to tell you this. kinda obvious.
 
You see, now THIS is why I'm a member!!! I stopped frequenting this place because it started to look too polite. :D;) We need a good know-it-all to tell us (amir in this particular case) how wrong we all are and we've been waiting for years (nearly a decade now) for someone to show us the way. It's not that break-in is a myth, it's just that there hasn't been enough of it. It just LOOKS like a myth because you need to do it between 100 and 200 hours but around 103dB!

BTW doesn't "highly dynamic" music (whatever that may be) have a lot of very quiet parts? :D Aren't quite parts LESS of an "exercise" for the speakers.
if people are doing to make claims and perform tests about say "speakers sweetening up after some time" then you actually need to do a progressive testing procedure and SOP for a test, with a method that follows the "myths or facts" that you are trying to discredit. if people are talking about rocking a speaker to the point where it actually relaxes, and claiming the hour-age, it should be repeated. but its not. again. a contentious test to more discerning people who work with analytics all scratching their heads wondering why such a test would be subjectively sabotaged on purpose.
 
They're using 700 + 150 + 150 in the 8361 if I understand the specs correctly. It's not one 1kW module. The tweeter definitely doesn't need 150W. For the other drivers it's harder to tell, but 700W seems a lot too. Depends how it's specified too. 1W can mean many different things if not further specified. :)
True. I knew it's not 1kW, I added it up meaning the speaker has available 1kW spread across drivers.

And the most important thing is, I'm not saying it's never used, let's say for the peak dB (although even that is not quite obvious, why would you spec the amp for the shortest bursts?), but I wonder why there's such a big difference between what is recommended and what gets built in?

For example, Look at the difference between what is recommended for the LS50 Meta and what gets built in the LS50 Wireless II.
 
i could say the same thing to you. hundreds of thousands of people have made claims over the decades that speakers relax after some use and exercising the suspension and suspension rubber.

then there's you.

that one guy, who asks for evidence but cant establish any at all, that working in a mechanical device doesn't relax it...... cool story dude.
Easy to establish two pairs of identical speakers one brand new one extensively used, compare level matched and unsighted.
In my opinion I haven’t heard any significant changes and properly designed speakers should be benchmarked.
Keith
 
103dB is not much if we are talking about peak levels. With good dynamic range of music this is the equivalent of 88dB average. Well made speakers should be capable to reach peaks at 110dB all day long.
Yeah but, there's no use of 110dB unless you're very far away. have you ever encountered (verified) noise of 110dB? That is, to put it mildly, very loud. It is, in fact 'lasting ear-damage' loud. That's why I started the thread "How loud you listen to". I often get the feeling people are throwing these numbers around, as Gervais would put it, all willy neely like.
 
if people are doing to make claims and perform tests about say "speakers sweetening up after some time" then you actually need to do a progressive testing procedure and SOP for a test, with a method that follows the "myths or facts" that you are trying to discredit. if people are talking about rocking a speaker to the point where it actually relaxes, and claiming the hour-age, it should be repeated. but its not. again. a contentious test to more discerning people who work with analytics all scratching their heads wondering why such a test would be subjectively sabotaged on purpose.
No. You're wrong. It has been done. It's not an unknown. No need for you to speculate and mystify.
 
i could say the same thing to you. hundreds of thousands of people have made claims over the decades that speakers relax after some use and exercising the suspension and suspension rubber.

then there's you.

that one guy, who asks for evidence but cant establish any at all, that working in a mechanical device doesn't relax it...... cool story dude.
Oh boy, are you in the wrong place... ;)

Soooooo, do you know those hundreds of thousands of people, could you name at least a hundred first name and last name?

I honestly think when they said 'relaxing rubber' they meant something completely different.
 
Yeah but, there's no use of 110dB unless you're very far away. have you ever encountered (verified) noise of 110dB? That is, to put it mildly, very loud. It is, in fact 'lasting ear-damage' loud. That's why I started the thread "How loud you listen to". I often get the feeling people are throwing these numbers around, as Gervais would put it, all willy neely like.
This largely depends on where in the frequency range the "noise" is. 110dB at 30Hz is somewhat loud, but not explosively so, and would be likely be tolerable for most people. A cymbal crash at 110dB, not so much. See: equal loudness contours, Fletcher-Munson, etc. I've measured 130dB+ peaks at the MLP over the bass frequencies and certainly enjoy it in moderate doses.
i could say the same thing to you. hundreds of thousands of people have made claims over the decades that speakers relax after some use and exercising the suspension and suspension rubber.

then there's you.

that one guy, who asks for evidence but cant establish any at all, that working in a mechanical device doesn't relax it...... cool story dude.
"Break in" is a tool often deployed by audio retailers in an effort to mitigate returns. "Oh, you don't care for the sound of your new speakers? Just run them in loudly for 300+ hours and suddenly the heavens will part and all of your favorites musicians, both living and dead, will materialize in your room! Oh, if in the unlikely event this doesn't occur, by sheer coincidence, your return window will have expired by that time."

Yes, the compliance of suspension components, woofer surrounds, etc, will measurably change somewhat over time, but this process has usually completed in a matter of a few hours, if not minutes, and the resulting audible effects are almost always exceedingly minor if not absent entirely.
 
This largely depends on where in the frequency range the "noise" is. 110dB at 30Hz is somewhat loud, but not explosively so, and would be likely be tolerable for most people. A cymbal crash at 110dB, not so much. See: equal loudness contours, Fletcher-Munson, etc. I've measured 130dB+ peaks at the MLP over the bass frequencies and certainly enjoy it in moderate doses.

"Break in" is a tool often deployed by audio retailers in an effort to mitigate returns. "Oh, you don't care for the sound of your new speakers? Just run them in loudly for 300+ hours and suddenly the heavens will part and all of your favorites musicians, both living and dead, will materialize in your room! Oh, if in the unlikely event this doesn't occur, by sheer coincidence, your return window will have expired by that time."

Yes, the compliance of suspension components, woofer surrounds, etc, will measurably change somewhat over time, but this process has usually completed in a matter of a few hours, if not minutes, and the resulting audible effects are almost always exceedingly minor if not absent entirely.
Sure, but then again, I propose we leave out the obvious digressions since we know you're not going to listen to an hour album of 30Hz at 110dB.

Do you think such proposition would be fair and helpful?
 
Sure, but then again, I propose we leave out the obvious digressions since we know you're not going to listen to an hour album of 30Hz at 110dB.

Do you think such proposition would be fair and helpful?
The comments I responded to mention 110dB peaks, not sustained listening. I would consider an average listening level of mid-upper 80s (with ~110dB peaks) to be loud, but not uncomfortably so, provided the system isn't distorting in any audible fashion. I don't believe anyone here is proposing a continual pounding at 110dB. :)
 
Maybe bringing back this topic on OPs track:

I had this exact same question 6 months ago. I went to check the Blade 2 Meta, the Reference 3 Meta and meant to listen to the 8361 in the Berlin Genelec Experience Center. But it never came to the latter.

How you might notice in my signature, the Reference 3 Meta won (surprisngly even beat the Blade imho). I had them in AB comparision for an hour in a hifi shop and the summary of the process was:
- KEF Blade 2 Meta sounded far away, indirect, even completely on axis
- KEF Reference 3 Meta sounded more "direct", as if it was actually there

Both speakers were exceptionally clear, linear and undistorted even at high levels. The Blade of course had the advantage of more low end, but as someone already said, you'd need a sub anyway, even for the large blades. The KC92 are incredible though and worth every dollar.

Why the Reference 3 Meta won in the end:
- pretty similar radiation pattern and FR to the blades
- lower price compared to the blades
- I got them in a insanely great deal even though the seller wanted to cross me, but KEF repaired the hidden defect for free (real GOAT company)
- normal shaped speaker which makes moving, handling and shipping far easier

Especially comapred to the Geneelc 8631
- passive = less wiring
- pretty compared to the Genelecs
- doesn't need a stand

Why I got to love the Reference 3 Meta over the last 6 months for reasons I noticed just after:
- the Reference have a 2cm full aluminium block as a baffle which few people notice - it's just massive, you barely see this in the product images
- you can throw any EQ at it, it will reproduce it just fine
- you can exactly control the ratio of direct/room sound - sound too close? Toe out! sound to reverby? Toe in!

The only thing I dislike about the Reference 3 Meta is their low axis. I even put them on a 15cm socket to put them on ear height. But since then it's a real SOTA speaker. Needs subwoofers though.

Allthough if I had the chance to get the blades for a good used price, I probably would consider those again. Lately I noticed that "far away" sound I mentioned above is actually my favourite right now, hence the toe out of the Reference 3 Meta at home.
 
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