$20-25k budget. Currently eyeing Genelec 8361A, KEF Blade One Meta, and the B&W 801D4.

[Kal Rubinson]

People say, that refelections of off axis sound of a speaker shall resemble the direct sound. yThe reasoning goes like „in that case the hearing is enabeld to identity the reflection as such, hence won‘t be irritated“.

I would not word it that way but, yes, you do not want the reflections to be distortions of the direct sound.

In practical non-stereo situations a real soundsource may have any weired directivity, but still the hearing works.

Yes but that is a situation where the music/source is being created and the ambiance of the performance space is part of that creative event.

If the latter is true, the former is wrong. Or, please point me to what is missing in my argumentation.

What's missing is that the reflections at the performance are part and parcel of event. The reflections at playback are not. It is similar to the reason that speakers should not be as resonant as the instruments whose sounds they reproduce.

 

[Matt_Holland]

@totaldominasian
Couple of things to add to the mix..

Are you prepared to experiment with speaker and listening position? This would be an important system tuning method prior to adding EQ. Even by ear you could, for example, move your listening position around to avoid a bass null or excessive peak. You can also clap hands and click fingers to check if you have any audible slap/flutter echoes. Without overthinking it, before you consider acoustic wall panels, add as much furniture to the room as possible including rugs, drapes, etc. This will help to make the room sound less echoey. Intuitively we all recognise a good sounding because they are quiet and calm feeling.

For the system front end if you go down the Wiim or Bluesound route then you may as well get their premium streamer pre-amps. Not only are both very low cost relative to your overall budget but they have subwoofer outputs and bass management, along with HDMI for TV integration. This way you are future proofed.

Good luck!

 

[sigbergaudio]

People say, that refelections of off axis sound of a speaker shall resemble the direct sound. yThe reasoning goes like „in that case the hearing is enabeld to identity the reflection as such, hence won‘t be irritated“.
In practical non-stereo situations a real soundsource may have any weired directivity, but still the hearing works. If the latter is true, the former is wrong. Or, please point me to what is missing in my argumentation.

As Kal points out, there's a difference between production and reproduction. The reflections and reverb from the original sound from the instrument are already present in the recording.

Regarding the differentiation between KEF vs Genelec, or the lack of it, both are sound wise „perfect for the purpose“. That implies equivalence, logically. I even propose a vastly more humble approach, but that is in the eye of the beholder.

This is a wider discussion, but we are not yet able to fully measure the characteristics of speakers. So similar measurements are not enough to tell us that they sound the same. Also measurements are not identical between any speakers (not even two different units of the same speaker).

On clinical sound that needs to be translated using coloring speakers and (!) adopted listening volume and room size etc, that may be an extra topic. Here the musical preferences are well overseeable. I only wanted to give a hint.

Not sure I understand exactly what you are saying here, but feel free to start a thread where you elaborate and mention me in it so we can continue the discussion.

 

[Heinrich]

As Kal points out, there's a difference between production and reproduction. The reflections and reverb from the original sound from the instrument are already present in the recording.

Thanks also @Kal. Actually I don‘t follow your argumentation regarding tainted reflections. Seems I need a step-by-step refresher on the topic.
On the sonic equivalence of (nearly) perfect speakers I keep my stance. There shall be an engineer’s „good enough“. More so I think that longing for more and more (most without) is a fundamental desease of the business. The eventual purpose of the effort. To own an idol, really?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Thanks also @Kal. Actually I don‘t follow your argumentation regarding tainted reflections. Seems I need a step-by-step refresher on the topic.

It's just how it is, the soundstage is typically wider / sounds better / more immersive if the off-axis is similar to the on-axis response. The theory is that the more different the off-axis energy is, the more likely your brain is to sort it as noise rather than a part of the original sound. The reverb time plays a part too. Point source speakers seem to add to this as well.

With regards to step-by-step refresher; There's a loooooong thread (45 pages) related to this topic here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...creates-a-large-and-precise-soundstage.48542/

On the sonic equivalence of (nearly) perfect speakers I keep my stance. There shall be an engineer’s „good enough“. More so I think that longing for more and more (most without) is a fundamental desease of the business. The eventual purpose of the effort. To own an idol, really?

Here again it is unclear to me what you mean. What is your definition of a "(nearly) perfect speaker"? And do you suggest such a thing exists, and/or do you suggest there exist a number of them, and that they all sound the same? Or what are you saying exactly?

 

[Heinrich]

Equivalence of speakers is a topic more related to the original post. Of course a wider radiation pattern sounds different in a particular room than another. But the room, and so much else, wasn‘t specified, neither are the KEF and Genelec significantly different in that regard. Both are coaxes, right?

Could we agree that under the given circumstances a recommendation isn‘t useful because the decision KEF vs Genelec depends on subjectively weighted preferences? The latter are not accessible to somebody else‘s rationale—by definition, there‘s not even a language.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Could we agree that under the given circumstances a recommendation isn‘t useful because the decision KEF vs Genelec depends on subjectively weighted preferences? The latter are not accessible to somebody else‘s rationale—by definition, there‘s not even a language.

Yes, we must at least know the OPs subjective preferences before we are able to make a recommendation.

As you perhaps are implying, a typical result of asking for recommendations on a forum, is that you get a ton of replies from people who give advice based on their own preferences more than anything else. So that's to be expected, and something one needs to try to filter.

Personally I'm confused that someone would consider both the 8361A and the Blade on the basis of how different they look, but that's just me. Perhaps how they look isn't a factor to the original poster.

 

[Heinrich]

Personally I'm confused that someone would consider both the 8361A and the Blade on the basis of how different they look, but that's just me. Perhaps how they look isn't a factor to the original poster.

Both are very close to perfect, more than studio tech in all its diversity ever will be for many best reasons. Agreement regarding looks and choice here.

 

[drdredd]

Looking to buy some nice speakers and I've been eyeing the used market. It seems that all of these options are in my budget if I'm willing to go used. I don't have any places near me to demo them, but I was curious if anyone's been able to compare these options previously. The wallet certainly says Genelec 8361A considering they're less than half the cost of the other 2 options. I definitely appreciate the aesthetics of the Blade One Metas and the B&W 801D4 more and was curious if there's also a big aural difference.

Musical genres I tend to listen to the most are techno, edm, pop, and R&B. Would greatly appreciate any input on this!

Maybe relevant to you, i just posted a thread with similar concepts. Except slightly lower price bracket.
I personally ended up choosing Geithain RL901K and couldn’t be happier.
Although many advise against this, (transportation to the US is difficult& customer support is non-existent).
If you intend to keep room treatment to a minimum, it is definitely worth learning about your in room bass response and how the speaker will interact with it. I believe the Genelec subs do have a cardioid feature if i remember correctly.
If you however ignore treatment(or slap up some foam… yikes) and spend 20k on speakers you may feel disappointed when you set them up and the kick sounds weak bc of sbir or general issues with uneven bass.
ESPECIALLY if you intend to listen to techno and edm as the sub bass relationship is essential in this music.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Personally I'm confused that someone would consider both the 8361A and the Blade on the basis of how different they look, but that's just me. Perhaps how they look isn't a factor to the original poster.

Yeah, I get it. The Blade and the 8361A are more similar than not from a technical perspective.
But then there’s the B&W...

 

[sigbergaudio]

Yeah, I get it. The Blade and the 8361A are more similar than not from a technical perspective.
But then there’s the B&W...

While the measurements of the 801D4 may leave something to be desired, it is still a competent design and very good drivers. In a good room and helped out a bit with something like Trinnov, they sound very good as well. And again, look very different from either alternative.

 

[dagfinn]

Hmm actually I may separate my room and set up a listening area for part of the room. The length of the listening area will be about 14’ long then, but I’ll probably be seated about 11’-12’ back from the speakers this way. I suppose I could get a carpet and some of those acoustic foam panels off Amazon and stick them onto the back wall behind my couch to help with reflections and onto one of the side walls. It’ll be an open space to the left though, but I think I heard open spaces aren’t too bad for listening environments as it doesn’t rebound back.

Looking at the price of everything, it appears that a used pair of KEF Blade One Metas and an amplifier from Buckeyes is very similar in price to a pair of Genelec 8351B and W371A so now I’m back to trying to figure out which will be my preferred setup.

Agree with Kal, get closer to speakers and away from the wall. If imaging is a point, distance between speakers is your guide to MLP.

Genelec 8351B and W371A would be my choice . Maybe with 7380a for full range EDM or techno, not to mention pop or R&B experience . With GLM, a much easier solution than Blades, which really needs suitable subs to play your music. And third party room correction/measuring gear...

Looks, @sigbergaudio ? Strangely, I like both Blades and 8351bs... .

 

[RobL]

Agree with Kal, get closer to speakers and away from the wall. If imaging is a point, distance between speakers is your guide to MLP.

Genelec 8351B and W371A would be my choice . Maybe with 7380a for full range EDM or techno, not to mention pop or R&B experience . With GLM, a much easier solution than Blades, which really needs suitable subs to play your music. And third party room correction/measuring gear...

Looks, @sigbergaudio ? Strangely, I like both Blades and 8351bs... .
View attachment 420019

“Darth Vaders”! Haha I’ve never seen these in white!
Have your 1022’s ever needed service? Wow, a testament to Genelec that these are still in use!

 

[genesisaudiorack]

Looking to buy some nice speakers and I've been eyeing the used market. It seems that all of these options are in my budget if I'm willing to go used. I don't have any places near me to demo them, but I was curious if anyone's been able to compare these options previously. The wallet certainly says Genelec 8361A considering they're less than half the cost of the other 2 options. I definitely appreciate the aesthetics of the Blade One Metas and the B&W 801D4 more and was curious if there's also a big aural difference.

Musical genres I tend to listen to the most are techno, edm, pop, and R&B. Would greatly appreciate any input on this!

spend your money wisely. you can afford to go listen to magico. magico magico magico. dont make the wrong decision, go listen first. youre selling yourself short looking at blades or genelec

 

[Purité Audio]

Magico do measure pretty well, this pair ( including $7600 for out rigger feet) are around $75k.

 

[Purité Audio]

KEF Blade II courtesy of Erins audio corner ,

 

[kyuu]

Yeah Magicos don't appear to be awful speakers (although I dunno why they seem to consistently have that massive roll off above 10kHz), but at the prices those sell for there are a lot of options that seem pretty objectively superior... like the KEF Blade, Genelecs, or Revel.

 

[Purité Audio]

Sadly marketing trumps all.
Keith

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Magico do measure pretty well, this pair ( including $7600 for out rigger feet) are around $75k.View attachment 420085

Which Magico model are these measurements taken from?

 

[Purité Audio]

The first Google Stereophile/Magico hit.
Keith