2 + years in the making …. Finally coming together

[Matt S]

Hi

I manually plugged in the c2900 then unplug it and bring in the AV10. Calibration has been done by the installer which took less than an hour for the C2900 and about 15 minutes for the AV10. Yes Dirac has been activated and measurements were taken. I asked the installer to send me the files so I could share here and will do a dedicated new post with pictures of the finalized space plus measurements.

Regarding your question if how do I say the C2900 is more pleasurable, it is difficult for me to explain why I enjoyed the sound. If I was going to give it a shot I would say the C2900 was far less accurate and definitely had less detail, but the character of the sound was very enjoyable. If anyone here comes from the HiFi headphone world you might understand what I am talking about, tune amps have different characters based on the amp and the tube. These could very accurately be called shortcomings/ flaws/ imperfections if you look at measurements, however for many people, myself included, these imperfections result in a sound signature that could be pleasing. My mind recalls the analogy of a fine oil painting in contrast to a photograph.

It goes without saying, people, especially the newer generation, could very well prefer a purely digital, processed ( “ enhanced “ ) sound, some of us prefer the character certain analog equipment brings to the table.

Logic and value do not apply here, nor do they apply in the world of art, fine watches / Jewlery, etc. this is an unnecessary luxury if there ever was one, but the takeaway for me is that the pre amp is definely my preference when it comes to HiFi, I do far prefer the AV10 for movies. Ran through scenes from Tron, Transformers, and Top Gun and the AV10 blew me away! The C2900 being two chanell and designed for HiFi is not valid for testing if course but even if there was a 7.1 analogue pre amp designed for HT like the McIntosh would still prefer the digital path here I think. These AV10 was perfect in all regards and provided what I would imagine is what the developers intended.

Sounds as though the difference you are hearing is Dirac vs whatever tweaks the c2900 allows.

You might try playing with Dirac a little once you are settled? Dirac allows you to apply room correction to the entire frequency spectrum or just parts of it (lower frequencies only for example). You can also apply your own room curves too.

Note that it should come with a health warning though as time disappears, there might be some frustration and perhaps the odd headache, but its all worth it. Multiple presets make for easy comparisons back and forth too.

 

[Mart68]

Congratulations on your project I think it looks fantastic and I love reading about this sort of thing.

Good decision to abandon the mirrored surfaces!

It's a shame you spent so much on cables and power conditioners, for that money you could have got the turntable you want plus a lot of records. Can you not return them? If not I suppose you can get a significant sum of money back selling them on or maybe a dealer will take them as a trade in for a turntable. I know lots of people think those things really matter but lots of people in this game are clueless, despite being heavily invested in it.

Totally approve of the Accuphase choice, it's what I'd have got with that budget. Who would not want the matching pre-amp too? (Some here, clearly )

Speakers are also outstanding, I almost bought a pair of the much older version some years back. In that room with the Focal/Accuphase I'd expect very good sound quality without any dedicated treatments but that doesn't mean it can't make it better still. I would not go overboard on it though, just use enough to fix any specific problems.

 

[Maxim-ICOM]

I manually plugged in the c2900 then unplug it and bring in the AV10. Calibration has been done by the installer which took less than an hour for the C2900 and about 15 minutes for the AV10. Yes Dirac has been activated and measurements were taken. I asked the installer to send me the files so I could share here and will do a dedicated new post with pictures of the finalized space plus measurements.

Manual for C2900 says that it have "balanced EXT PRE inputs", what looks like it is "HT bypass" and you can connect front L+R XLR out from AV10 to Accuphase and use Accuphase pre+power to run your fronts, plugging your nice speakers to Accuphase power amp.

 

[Tell]

System has been installed, with no break in and I have to say, it sounds absolutely magical! The Accuphase pre amp sounds fantastic!!! I can’t define it in measurements or explain it, it just sounds fantastic!!! Unbelievable!!! Heavenly is the word that comes to mind! Also effortless. A very different sound than the Marantz playing the same files though the same source

It's your speakers and room that sounds absolutely magical fantastic unbelievable heavenly, not your preamp or anything else. Tbh you could replace that preamp with a metallic coat hanger and you would probably not hear any difference at all (if tested blind of course).

 

[Altair]

And you have to do that every time you want to switch from listening to music to watching movies / tv and vice versa?


That should be the other way round. Did you get the full Dirac suite - Live, DLBC and ART - with the AV10?


Where did I ask that?

This is the question I asked:

...and it is a yes or no question. Do you want to know?

No of course not, the switching out completely is for testing purposes with all sources.
Now that I know I am keeping both for different reasons, the sources will be plugged into the pre amps based on type and the AV10 plugs into C2900 . So blu ray player Apple TV satellite etc into Marantz while music streamer ( and eventually record player ) will be exclusive to C2900. That’s the whole point of having both, optimized based on content and desired sonic signature.

 

[Altair]

Manual for C2900 says that it have "balanced EXT PRE inputs", what looks like it is "HT bypass" and you can connect front L+R XLR out from AV10 to Accuphase and use Accuphase pre+power to run your fronts, plugging your nice speakers to Accuphase power amp.

Correct, the C2900 can have dedicated sources exclusive to it plus act as a channel between AV10 and speakers

 

[Altair]

Congratulations on your project I think it looks fantastic and I love reading about this sort of thing.

Good decision to abandon the mirrored surfaces!

It's a shame you spent so much on cables and power conditioners, for that money you could have got the turntable you want plus a lot of records. Can you not return them? If not I suppose you can get a significant sum of money back selling them on or maybe a dealer will take them as a trade in for a turntable. I know lots of people think those things really matter but lots of people in this game are clueless, despite being heavily invested in it.

Totally approve of the Accuphase choice, it's what I'd have got with that budget. Who would not want the matching pre-amp too? (Some here, clearly )

Speakers are also outstanding, I almost bought a pair of the much older version some years back. In that room with the Focal/Accuphase I'd expect very good sound quality without any dedicated treatments but that doesn't mean it can't make it better still. I would not go overboard on it though, just use enough to fix any specific problems.

Thank you for your thoughts. Now that I have lived with the system for a day I don’t think I will do any additional room treatment, except for the subs once they get here.

By the way I talked to my installer and he recommended a pair or REL 15 inchers and offered to take in the 10s and the power conditioner back, so that’s already an upgrade.

I have to admit I was so pleased with this setup I had the urge to upgrade to the C3900 from the C2900, but that tiny bit of reason I have left prevailed.

Overall would not change anything now, if budget was no concern C3900 and Perlisten HT but as the budget stands, pretty perfect. Unfortunately cables can’t be returned as per policy, but they do look fancy and supposedly will last 3 lifetimes, so trying to live with that amount of money that went down the drain, lesson learned

 

[Altair]

These are the 15 inchers I am getting

 

[Mr. Widget]

These are the 15 inchers I am getting

If it is not too late, I would suggest these JL Audio In-walls for aesthetic reasons. They are as powerful as most 15" subs and do not clutter up your room. I would use at least two, and use four if you can... four subs in most rooms is ideal, though we occasionally use substantially more and occasionally fewer.

 

[voodooless]

he recommended a pair or REL 15 inchers

You can get way better subs than REL. They generally live more on reputation than actual delivery.

 

[Altair]

If it is not too late, I would suggest these JL Audio In-walls for aesthetic reasons. They are as powerful as most 15" subs and do not clutter up your room. I would use at least two, and use four if you can... four subs in most rooms is ideal, though we occasionally use substantially more and occasionally fewer.

Thank you for the suggestion. Reads like you are an installer ? If so your suggestion has more weight than most and I am seriously considering calling my guy and settling on four of those.
Running the cables might be an issue as I don’t want to clutter up the room and wireless seems to be subpar in terms of quality, but I think we might be able to do something with external piping

 

[Altair]

You can get way better subs than REL. They generally live more on reputation than actual delivery.

Seriously? My installer raves about Rel!

 

[Altair]

I just took a look at the jbl in walls and called my contractor, running the cables is not a reasonable proposition at this point with the room finished, so it’s 2 subs.

I have 2 of the 15 inch Rels on order, and have a day or two to consider the jbl in walls, though I had to say I also took a look at the Rel website and saw a pair of subs that look absolutely fantastic from a visual perspective, I was surprised to see that they matched my new den’s decor to the T, almost as if by design! Uncanny coincidence!!!

I found an interesting tool on Rel’s website that enables placing the subs in a space virtually through an AR technology and was just flabbergasted to see how perfectly the design fits the room decor! Seriously thinking of settling on these just for the looks but considering the price I need to know they will perform well with my system

 

[Mr. Widget]

Thank you for the suggestion. Reads like you are an installer ? If so your suggestion has more weight than most and I am seriously considering calling my guy and settling on four of those.
Running the cables might be an issue as I don’t want to clutter up the room and wireless seems to be subpar in terms of quality, but I think we might be able to do something with external piping

Yes, my day job is designing home theaters, media rooms, etc. I personally wouldn't go with REL and I wouldn't recommend them, but they will certainly work and if you like the aesthetics then that will likely be the deciding factor.

 

[Altair]

Yes, my day job is designing home theaters, media rooms, etc. I personally wouldn't go with REL and I wouldn't recommend them, but they will certainly work and if you like the aesthetics then that will likely be the deciding factor.

Thanks for your honest thoughts. I am tortured as I write this, on one hand the visual aspect has been extremely excited, on the other I certainly don’t want to spend 10k on 2 subs that underperform

If I could take a moment of your time, as a professional your opinion matters tremendously to me and my own installers matters less and less as time goes on, most of his decisions seem based on business strategy rather than quality in my system to be honest ( the fact that he pushed me towards cables and power conditioning isn’t helping )

My question to you, if you where in my place, and had the option of 2 JBL subs or any other 2 subs or those specific 13 inch 1000 watt Rels, would you consider it an absolutely silly decision that would undermine the system as a whole? I would greatly appreciate it if you could take a look at my system which was posted in the beginning of this thread, the HT part had many compromises and in a few years I might upgrade the ceiling and HT speakers to Perlisten while keeping the HiFi portion as is, its important for me to make the right decision with subs that will last for many years to come.

If you couldn’t tell I am trying to push you towards agreeing with the Rel’s, really blown away by the design, just exactly my taste and perfect for the room I just spent 2 years designing and building

 

[AudioJester]

Sigberg Audio Inkognito subs if you have to go in room and not be too intrusive.

 

[Altair]

Sigberg Audio Inkognito subs if you have to go in room and not be too intrusive.

Thanks for the suggestion. Not sure if we have those here in Saudi though

 

[Altair]

I mean can we all take a moment and just realize how perfectly aligned these subs are the to the room decor? Both the wood type and design are exactely the same as the room as if they were made for each other! I was absolutely floored when in placed the subs virtually in the room and read the wood type!!! What a strange coincidence!!!!

 

[voodooless]

Thanks for your honest thoughts. I am tortured as I write this, on one hand the visual aspect has been extremely excited, on the other I certainly don’t want to spend 10k on 2 subs that underperform

For 10k, you could have two custom subs built to order with whatever wood finish you like.

 

[Ciobi69]

Seriously? My installer raves about Rel!

honestly? they are one of the worst commercial subwoofer, you can get more performance with for example svs and arendal, or you get diy subs built that can perform better than all commercial stuff for less