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2-way vs 3-way speakers

mhardy6647

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Single driver, full range speakers not mentioned or being discussed either? ;)

No crossover at all... potential IMD and beaming though.



JSmith
I -- sort of -- did :)

Wideband drivers ("fullrange" drivers) are one of those... umm... dog whistles in some circles. ;)

FullRanger-shield-FR125.gif
 

Ata

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You could also go 2.5 way and get best of both worlds (perhaps)?
 

dasdoing

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JRS

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Three ways allow one to do bass right without resorting to subwoofers. Now if you have the space, $$$ and a sufficiently understanding spouse, a group of subwoofers (at least 2--one front and the other back with back providing cancellation of some of the more annoying standing waves) will always be superior), but there are no shortage of good woofers 12"+ able to cover 30-300Hz that provide the kind of oomph no woofer/mid bass can. As they say with cars, there is no replacement for displacement.

That said, modern long throw mid-bass drivers like the Purify, can provide some grunt, but unless stacked still come up short, and will likely require some 4'th order alignment with the possible attendant hangover or extraneous sounds if not.

Before the popularity of DSP/active channels, designing good crossovers was a major task, and to do it well twice is harder than once--although truncation of response due to stretching the coverage of drivers is much less of an issue going active and/or using waveguides. Still having some fat overlap between drivers makes matters a whole lot easier. There is one midrange driver, a 3" dome coupled to a 15lb magnet that if owned would be an absolute crime not to be used.

My most recent system is 3 way, using really good 15" woofers to cover 30-300. What little loss of coherence that may be present is amply repaid by it's ability to hit 115dB peaks at 30 Hz in stride. Palpability of bass is not to be underestimated IMHO.
 

Frank Dernie

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I guess you don't listen to the human voice then. I like listening to that instrument...
I think you are confusing the important frequency range of the human voice for intelligibility with the frequency range where ears are most sensitive.

300 to 3kHz is OK for intelligibility (though not for high fidelity).

The graphs that has been posted clearly illustrate the frequency range where ears are most sensitive - look at the region around the minimum in the curve.
 

antennaguru

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I think you are confusing the important frequency range of the human voice for intelligibility with the frequency range where ears are most sensitive.

300 to 3kHz is OK for intelligibility (though not for high fidelity).

The graphs that has been posted clearly illustrate the frequency range where ears are most sensitive - look at the region around the minimum in the curve.
As pointed out already that does not mean the ear is most sensitive to hearing distortion and coloration according to the F - M curve, which was developed specifically for designing the "Loudness" control for use only at very low volumes. Still using your "Loudness" control?
 

Frank Dernie

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As pointed out already that does not mean the ear is most sensitive to hearing distortion and coloration according to the F - M curve, which was developed specifically for designing the "Loudness" control for use only at very low volumes. Still using your "Loudness" control?
No it wasn't and no I'm not.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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i dont get why in a 3 way the mids distortion is reduce..
Why if i add a subwoofer in a 3 way system the woofer '' no longer modulates those frequencies '' ? the woofer are only not making subs... but the mids ?
 

abdo123

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i dont get why in a 3 way the mids distortion is reduce..
Why if i add a subwoofer in a 3 way system the woofer '' no longer modulates those frequencies '' ? the woofer are only not making subs... but the mids ?

Crossovers in the midrange need to be 6dB/oct or 12dB/oct otherwise there would be (audible) phase distortion, so the woofer plays well into the midrange (600Hz crossover). it's only decently attenuated at 1KHz-1.5KHz.

Edit: they're using 24 db/oct but they're using FIR filters so no phase distortion, even with the relatively high order crossover, the crossover frequency is still too high to completely eliminate IMD.

Edit: it's not FIR filters, so the jury is out on phase distortion.

index.php
 
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dfuller

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Crossovers in the midrange need to be 6dB/oct or otherwise there would be (audible) phase distortion, so the woofer plays well into the midrange (600Hz crossover). it's only decently attenuated at 1KHz-1.5KHz.

index.php
I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Neumann's site references 4th order crossovers on all drivers.
 

abdo123

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I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Neumann's site references 4th order crossovers on all drivers.
yeah you're right, i think they're using FIR filtering to avoid the phase distortion. I guess the crossover point is still a bit high to completely eliminate IMD.
 

bravomail

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Other than lower distortion in the midrange in 3-way speakers
What other advantages do they have vs
2-way speakers?
r u pushing for 3-way? they r more expensive - +1 woofer, +1 crossover, very few of them had good ratings here. I'd choose good 2-way anytime.
 

gy-k

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It's probably the other drivers bleeding into the measurement making it appear like that.

Genelec publishes group delay graphs, here's for example the 8341A, without and with phase linearization for the LF-MF crossover (4th order I think), and the 2-way 8330A.

8341A_GD.jpg

8341A_with_ultra_wide_linear_phase_range_GD.jpg


8330A_GD.jpg
 
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