2.1, 3.1 or good soundbar with a sub for watching TV, setting up a new room help please.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I have always run a stereo separate from my TV. Said TV had a Roku soundbar. In my new house I have the opportunity to up my game a bit and while I'm not really interested in going full on home theater I'm curious to know the benefits of the various combinations of RCL with a sub, RL with a sub, RCL with the center being a soundbar and sub or just having a soundbar with a sub and keeping my 2 channel for music only.

Everything I have now are 2 channel electronics, I know for some of those configurations above I would need some AVR so a discussion on what would make sense there would also be appreciated.

 

[sweetchaos]

2.2 with minidsp flex is end-game for a stereo setup. Choose any competent sub from my “subwoofer comparison” and you're set.

Are you thinking active or passive speakers?

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I already have a SVS SB-1000. I think I actually picked that one out from your spreadsheet so thanks for that!

I have two sets of passive speakers Paradigm Studio 40's and Spica TC 60s. I also have a line on some free Monitor Audio's I forget the model but theynare probably 15 isn years old.

All my gear is fairly old (still works great) so there is the possibility that I sell all of it including the electronics and start fresh.

But I'm mainly concerned here with learning about what I can pick up in terms of an improved TV experience vis a vis the cost, pro's and con's etc. Anything I have will have to have a 2.1 (or .2 down the road lol) and be able to deliver on that.

 

[Triliza]

I'd agree with what sweetchaos said. If you would be the only person listening you may not need a center speaker at all if you sit in middle.

Since you are mentioning soundbars in the title, there was a recent thread about them if you haven't seen it, and some people find them from good to very good for tv and music. They even do atmos an don't need an AVR. I don't have any personal experience to share.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...erful-world-of-sound-bars.37042/#post-1305499

 

[sweetchaos]

I don't have much hopes for sound bars. But I won't dismiss them from the discussion, since stores sell a tonne of them.

Neumi BS5P (with ports stuffed and new tuning from company as Erin discussed) I believe is a soundbar killer for the same typical price of around $150.

Revisited: Neumi BS5P Powered Bookshelf Speaker

Revisited: Neumi BS5P Powered Bookshelf Speaker

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[DMill]

I use a tcl soundbar with one of my tv‘s because I have no room for speakers. It sounds better than the tv speakers. That’s about all I can say for it. I think I paid $129.

 

[sweetchaos]

Well if you're enjoying the speakers you have already, then why upgrade them?
Only upgrade if you think you're lacking on their audio quality.

If you plan to upgrade...I don't know your budget for this, but you can get some ideas from my 'passive speaker' or 'active speaker' recommendations threads.

Then, I'd go with MiniDSP Flex for state of the art DAC performance and room correction (via manual PEQ or via automated Dirac for an additional cost).

I'd still get dual subs, since dual subs fix the issue of room modes causing dips in the frequency response.

Beyond MiniDSP Flex, say if you need more speakers than stereo, get the Denon X3700H (or the upcoming X3800H coming this month) for all the bells and features...but substantially higher cost than Flex (I think it's like 3x more).

If you need amplifier recommendations, checkout Matia's awesome amplifier spreadsheet.

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Well if you're enjoying the speakers you have already, then why upgrade them?
Only upgrade if you think you're lacking on their audio quality.

If you plan to upgrade...I don't know your budget for this, but you can get some ideas from my 'passive speaker' or 'active speaker' recommendations threads.

Then, I'd go with MiniDSP Flex for state of the art DAC performance and room correction (via manual PEQ or via automated Dirac for an additional cost).

I'd still get dual subs, since dual subs fix the issue of room modes causing dips in the frequency response.

Beyond MiniDSP Flex, say if you need more speakers than stereo, get the Denon X3700H (or the upcoming X3800H coming this month) for all the bells and features...but substantially higher cost than Flex (I think it's like 3x more).

If you need amplifier recommendations, checkout Matia's awesome amplifier spreadsheet.

Why upgrade? I have listened to speakers that I enjoy more. Paradigm Founder series and Golden Ear Tritons to name a couple. Looking at some DIY and direct to consumer offerings as well. I will probably go with passive but I'm not close to pulling the trigger on speakers yet.
I'm still working on getting the TV's sorted, then I will see what my gear set up sounds/looks like then speakers then electronics. I envision the entire process taking 6 mos. to a year considering we still need to move in, unpack figure out new furniture etc.

As i mentioned before I'm not really looking for an immersive surround experience as frankly I find listening to sound coming from behind me distracting while watching TV. But I would like to have a great "traditional" TV listening experience with excellent sound reproduction especially dialogue. Some soundstage would be nice as well. It's going to be in a living room so there will be multiple seating locations and ease of use are other variables.

I'm finding a lot of circular thinking here, I think I have it figured out then one of the other options seems to make more sense...rinse and repeat lol.

 

[Triliza]

As said above, the best upgrade would be some mean of room corrections, with the easiest way being buying the Flex with Dirac or an AVR with Audyssey/Dirac. Flex may be cheaper, an AVR includes amp. Both make it easy to integrate your sub(s).

For dialogue you'll need a good center speaker. In that case an AVR would be the way, and they are easy to operate by anyone. In short, an AVR + the speakers (LCR and sub) of your choice (Revels for example have wide dispersion and bigger perceived soundstage from what I have read) and you are all set. Get some furniture for the tv that has space for the center speaker.

 

[davidperrenoud]

For dialogue you'll need a good center speaker.

I would go even further and say: mono is better than stereo for dialogue. Just try to put your first speaker in front of your TV, disable the second one and see if you get better dialogue clarity than with the phantom center of your stereo pair. If not, just go back to your stereo pair and be happy with it.

In my case, I use a Genelec 8010 for the center channel and the rest of my stereo with passive subwoofer gets a downmix of the other front channels. This allows me to send the channels over a pair of RCA cables and recover some of the ambiance while having perfect dialogue clarity. I use IINA with the following ffmpeg audio filter to achieve it:

lavfi=[pan=stereo|FL<FC|FR<FL+FR]

This basically gives me a LR-C-LR mix. I am not saying that it is the correct way to do things and the Genelec might be helping a lot, but experimenting does not cost anything but time and you can always go back to your previous configuration if things get worse.

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

As said above, the best upgrade would be some mean of room corrections, with the easiest way being buying the Flex with Dirac or an AVR with Audyssey/Dirac. Flex may be cheaper, an AVR includes amp. Both make it easy to integrate your sub(s).

For dialogue you'll need a good center speaker. In that case an AVR would be the way, and they are easy to operate by anyone. In short, an AVR + the speakers (LCR and sub) of your choice (Revels for example have wide dispersion and bigger perceived soundstage from what I have read) and you are all set. Get some furniture for the tv that has space for the center speaker.

As I understand it a really great thing about AVR's is that they technologically advanced in terms of room correction, a lot of bang for the buck. I can see going that route buying a relatively inexpensive one and running the front three speakers.

I'm assuming, perhaps erroneously, that if I buy say a 5.1 AVR that it will be able to run only the three (or two if I'm listening to music) and still effectively run the room correction?. And I guess if I go the AVR route I can buy three speakers that are "matched" and that will have easier and probably better integration? That will also sound better than a sound bar for music albeit not for critical listening.

Of course my wife who prioritizes ease of use over great sound would probably prefer going with a sound bar, so there is that.

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I would go even further and say: mono is better than stereo for dialogue. Just try to put your first speaker in front of your TV, disable the second one and see if you get better dialogue clarity than with the phantom center of your stereo pair. If not, just go back to your stereo pair and be happy with it.

In my case, I use a Genelec 8010 for the center channel and the rest of my stereo with passive subwoofer gets a downmix of the other front channels. This allows me to send the channels over a pair of RCA cables and recover some of the ambiance while having perfect dialogue clarity. I use IINA with the following ffmpeg audio filter to achieve it:

lavfi=[pan=stereo|FL<FC|FR<FL+FR]

This basically gives me a LR-C-LR mix. I am not saying that it is the correct way to do things and the Genelec might be helping a lot, but experimenting does not cost anything but time and you can always go back to your previous configuration if things get worse.

Good points, thanks

 

[sweetchaos]

I'm assuming, perhaps erroneously, that if I buy say a 5.1 AVR that it will be able to run only the three (or two if I'm listening to music) and still effectively run the room correction?

The minimum requirement is to have 2 stereo speakers hooked up to AVR.
If you never buy other speakers, all audio content higher than 2 channel won't be processed by the AVR. In other words, your AVR doesn't care about how many speakers you have hooked up to it (other than the stereo pair of course).
Room correction works by adjusting delays and trim levels for each individual speaker.

And I guess if I go the AVR route I can buy three speakers that are "matched" and that will have easier and probably better integration?

Yes if your 3 LCR speakers are from the same lineup, they'll be timber-matched.
You mean integration with the sub, right? You could argue that MiniDSP provides more fine tune control over the integration with your sub for example. But for the most part, AVRs do a decent job so the difference between AVR and MiniDSP is not huge.

 

[Triliza]

As I understand it a really great thing about AVR's is that they technologically advanced in terms of room correction, a lot of bang for the buck. I can see going that route buying a relatively inexpensive one and running the front three speakers.

I'm assuming, perhaps erroneously, that if I buy say a 5.1 AVR that it will be able to run only the three (or two if I'm listening to music) and still effectively run the room correction?. And I guess if I go the AVR route I can buy three speakers that are "matched" and that will have easier and probably better integration? That will also sound better than a sound bar for music albeit not for critical listening.

Of course my wife who prioritizes ease of use over great sound would probably prefer going with a sound bar, so there is that.

I don't have an AVR, but from what I can tell ease of use shouldn't be a problem, theoretically when you turn the tv on, the AVR would also wake up and default to tv sound. Your tv and avr should support cec, arc/earc or whatever they are called for this to work I think.

For critical stereo listening, I don't see why that can't be done also, if you have the space for proper placement of your speakers next to the tv and good speakers. AVR's have modes for stereo, some of them will even disable any processing of the sound if you so desire (pure/direct mode or such), but that means that room corrections won't work also. Anyway, I don't own an AVR so I''ll let someone else answer your question in more detail.

 

[Rotiv]

Maybe something like this

https://www.amazon.de/Nubert-Soundplate-TV-Lautsprecher-Stereobase-Sprachoptimierung/dp/B0B8NVJX7H

 

[Rotiv]

I do have a 3.1 soundbar, without a doubt better than the sound of the tv, but those little woofers don't work miracles. lack of body in voices with high and low frequencies dominating the response, lack of dynamics... either too high or too low.

The Nubert "soundbar" line caught my attention, they have a 3-way model, two 2.5 tweeters, two 11 mids and two 17 woofers, but I can't find more technical information to allow an evaluation.

 

[Rotiv]

That's the one

nuPro AS-3500 hier kaufen | Nubert

nuPro AS-3500 jetzt bei Nubert entdecken! Hochwertig verarbeitet ✓ Lieferzeit 1-3 Werktage

www.nubert.de

 

[GD Fan]

As I understand them (not owning one), soundbars replicate LCR speakers. So using one as a center in a 3.1 arrangement probably doesn't make sense.

Using an AVR is probably your simplest implementation. Since they process multichannel assuming a center is in use 3.1 is what I'd recommend. Listening to TV dialogue in 2.1 might be satisfactory, but I've never done it. When I watch the TV my Denon uses my 5.1 speaker arrangement.

Let's go Blues! (Frustrating start to the season thus far.)

 

[samysound]

The minimum requirement is to have 2 stereo speakers hooked up to AVR.
If you never buy other speakers, all audio content higher than 2 channel won't be processed by the AVR. In other words, your AVR doesn't care about how many speakers you have hooked up to it (other than the stereo pair of course).
Room correction works by adjusting delays and trim levels for each individual speaker.

Yes if your 3 LCR speakers are from the same lineup, they'll be timber-matched.
You mean integration with the sub, right? You could argue that MiniDSP provides more fine tune control over the integration with your sub for example. But for the most part, AVRs do a decent job so the difference between AVR and MiniDSP is not huge.

Something to consider is that with an AVR and dolby/dts content the 0.1 content will be maintained with a 2.1 setup and the you will probably have modes for phantom center and better downmix of the surround content to proper 2.1

With a 2 channel setup (that does not decode surround content) the surround and subwoofer content will be down mixed to 2 channels. If primary use is watching TV and movies which are often broadcast/streamed in surround sound then this may not be optimal for LFE content and dialog clarity. at least in my experience....