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2.0 Speakers to go with Yamaha WXA-50

Felks32

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Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I recently purchased a Yamaha WXA-50 streaming amp (based in part on the review on this site, and my preference for Yamaha gear), along with a pair of Paradigm Monitor SE3000F speakers, and i'm getting the itch to upgrade.

I'd like to continue using the WXA-50, but would like to go upmarket on the speakers. I'm not overly thrilled by the review of the Prestige 15b's, so i'm looking for other options. I could go bookshelf or tower.

My setup is in a very open concept living room, mainly used for streaming music, watching sports on TV and some gaming via PS5.

I'm in Ontario Canada for reference.

Thanks in advance!
Mike
 

AdamG247

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Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I recently purchased a Yamaha WXA-50 streaming amp (based in part on the review on this site, and my preference for Yamaha gear), along with a pair of Paradigm Monitor SE3000F speakers, and i'm getting the itch to upgrade.

I'd like to continue using the WXA-50, but would like to go upmarket on the speakers. I'm not overly thrilled by the review of the Prestige 15b's, so i'm looking for other options. I could go bookshelf or tower.

My setup is in a very open concept living room, mainly used for streaming music, watching sports on TV and some gaming via PS5.

I'm in Ontario Canada for reference.

Thanks in advance!
Mike
Welcome Aboard @Felks32.
 
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Felks32

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So far I’ve looked at Dali Oberon 5, Paradigm Premier 700F, PSB Imagine XT, ELAC Debut and DBR, and the KEF Q750’s seem to go on sale a fair bit.
 

Midwest Blade

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Oops, sorry the Focal 806 has not been reviewed here, but comes from a quality producer.
 
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Felks32

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Revel M16 or Focal Chora 806 plus a pair of stands. Both reviewed very well here ar ASR and should meet your $cad price point.

Thanks, i'll have a look. I guess I have been focused on towers since that's what I'd be replacing but definitely open to bookshelves.
 

sweetchaos

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Here's a few measurement I could find:

Dali Oberon 7:
https://www.hifitest.de/test/bildergalerie/lautsprecher_surround/dali-oberon_7-set_17243/10#b
1620841575379.png
https://www.i-fidelity.net/testberichte/hifi/dali-oberon-7/seite-5.html
1620841606557.png

PSB Imagine X1T:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/psb-imagine-x-speaker-system-review-test-bench
Top (purple) graph
1620841679209.png

PSB Imagine X2T's (what I have) are much better performers:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
1620841724265.png
Disclosure:
I got the my X2T's for CDN$1200/pair from a local BC dealer, back in Christmas of 2017 and they retailed for CDN$1900/pair then.


Paradigm Premier 100B (the bookshelf from the same series):
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
1620841868811.png

Elac DFR52 (tower from the same series as the DBR62 bookshelf):

Kef Q750:
https://www.hifitest.de/test/bildergalerie/lautsprecher_surround/kef-q750_atmos-set_15812/11#b
1620842074587.png
 
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Felks32

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Wow! Thank you so much for doing all of that.

I actually owned a pair of PSB Imagine XB's that never left the box...they sounded incredible in the record store where I demoed them. Convinced myself to go towers instead.
 

sweetchaos

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Wow! Thank you so much for doing all of that.

I actually owned a pair of PSB Imagine XB's that never left the box...they sounded incredible in the record store where I demoed them. Convinced myself to go towers instead.
You're welcome. I have the XB's as well, in a 5.1 ch setup.

Take a look at my compiled list of Canadian dealers to help you quickly find any speaker.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-headphone-subwoofer-resellers-dealers.16800/

Then look at my Amir's highly-recommended speakers for Canadians:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...irs-recommended-speakers-for-canadians.18916/

There are several Revel dealers (as recommended above) in Canada, but most* don't list prices, so you'll need to contact them directly.
 
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Felks32

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You're welcome. I have the XB's as well, in a 5.1 ch setup.

Take a look at my compiled list of Canadian dealers to help you quickly find any speaker.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-headphone-subwoofer-resellers-dealers.16800/

Then look at my Amir's highly-recommended speakers for Canadians:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...irs-recommended-speakers-for-canadians.18916/

There are several Revel dealers (as recommended above) in Canada, but most* don't list prices, so you'll need to contact them directly.

I've been clicking through the links in your signature for the past hour. :)
 
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Felks32

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I’ve been having a conversation with @sweetchaos but thought it might be good to post here as well…

Its been recommended to me by some Facebook “experts” that the SE3000’s need more power to really sing, and that I could damage them by only running on an amp that pumps out 55wpc.

According to the Crown Amp calculator - to maintain an 85db level at 3m listening distance with 10db of overhead for dynamic range on a 91 db sensitive speaker - I need a whopping 23 watts?!?!

Am I missing something here? I watched the Jays game at a comfortable level last night and using the NIOSH SPL app on my phone it told me that I was listening around 50db. I’m not sure I’ve ever watched tv at 85db. So I’m actually closer to needing like 2 watts. :)

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the responses so far.
 

NTK

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One important consideration that rarely got mentioned in this type of discussions is the crest factor of the signal.

Amplifier power is spec'd (and therefore measured) using a single frequency sine wave, which has a crest factor of 3 dB. Thus, at 55 watts rated for 8 ohm, RMS output voltage is 21.0 V, and the peak voltage is 29.7 V.

Music, on the other hand, typically has a rest factor >12 dB. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crest_factor#Applications
(ANSI/CTA-2034-A specifies using test signals with a crest factor of 12 dB to measure loudspeaker maximum outputs. See section 8.1.1.)

If we make the conservative assumption that the amplifier has zero dynamic headroom, the clipping voltage limit of the 55 W @ 8 ohm amp will be 29.7 V. With music having a crest factor of 12 dB, that means a 9 dB reduction in averaged power, which translates to 6.9 W! Therefore, do not be surprised an amp rate to 55 W @ 8 ohm will clip at 6.9 W with music.
 
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Felks32

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One important consideration that rarely got mentioned in this type of discussions is the crest factor of the signal.

Amplifier power is spec'd (and therefore measured) using a single frequency sine wave, which has a crest factor of 3 dB. Thus, at 55 watts rated for 8 ohm, RMS output voltage is 21.0 V, and the peak voltage is 29.7 V.

Music, on the other hand, typically has a rest factor >12 dB. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crest_factor#Applications
(ANSI/CTA-2034-A specifies using test signals with a crest factor of 12 dB to measure loudspeaker maximum outputs. See section 8.1.1.)

If we make the conservative assumption that the amplifier has zero dynamic headroom, the clipping voltage limit of the 55 W @ 8 ohm amp will be 29.7 V. With music having a crest factor of 12 dB, that means a 9 dB reduction in averaged power, which translates to 6.9 W! Therefore, do not be surprised an amp rate to 55 W @ 8 ohm will clip at 6.9 W with music.

Again very helpful information. So much to learn.

To take it in a slightly different direction - I also have a Yamaha RX-V685 receiver in the house, which is rated at 90 W per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.06% THD, 2-ch driven) - is this a better choice to drive these speakers?
 

NTK

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Again very helpful information. So much to learn.

To take it in a slightly different direction - I also have a Yamaha RX-V685 receiver in the house, which is rated at 90 W per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.06% THD, 2-ch driven) - is this a better choice to drive these speakers?
This is a difficult question. Amir has not measured the RX-V685, but he measured the RX-V6A which is a newer model in about the same price range. The WXA-50 measured a lot better.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...channel-4k-8k-dolby-av-receiver-review.17204/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-of-yamaha-wxa-50-streaming-amp.7964/

However, IMHO 55 Wpc is on a little on the low side, and the ~2X power of the RX-V685 is nice to have. My guess, based on my personal belief that human hearing is actually a lot less discriminating than we think, is to go with higher power.
 
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Felks32

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This is a difficult question. Amir has not measured the RX-V685, but he measured the RX-V6A which is a newer model in about the same price range. The WXA-50 measured a lot better.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...channel-4k-8k-dolby-av-receiver-review.17204/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-of-yamaha-wxa-50-streaming-amp.7964/

However, IMHO 55 Wpc is on a little on the low side, and the ~2X power of the RX-V685 is nice to have. My guess, based on my personal belief that human hearing is actually a lot less discriminating than we think, is to go with higher power.

It definitely appears that more power is needed. Ok so maybe the better option is to find a more suitable receiver to go with the speakers. Off to do more research!
 
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