'1K€ for TWO DIFFERENT pairs of headphones' Challenge

[Robbo99999]

Cant even remember what I do there- the point being, there is more to HP than a standard FR or EQ to a standard target- its possible to have different but good.

I suppose so, depending on who you are, I don't really subscribe to that loose ethos, but I am aware that the Harman Headphone Curve can't suit everyone due to people having different overall HRTF's.

 

[Jimbob54]

I suppose so, depending on who you are, I don't really subscribe to that loose ethos, but I am aware that the Harman Headphone Curve can't suit everyone due to people having different overall HRTF's.

To each their own

 

[donpablo]

@Jose Hidalgo

I would suggest you:
- closed: ATH W1000Z (used can be found with pretty good price)
- open: Takstar HF 580 (enough cheap to buy new)

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

So, here are finally some news. My GF and I have thought a lot about this over the last few days (probably too much, lol), we have discussed it, and we have come to the following conclusions, according to our music tastes and other personal criteria :

----------

1. My GF wanted us to get the Nighthawk Carbon, for the following reasons :

• She loves bass
  
• Their extraordinary comfort was a great plus for her
• They were a great deal at 249 €, and they were available in only one website with limited stock

As for me, I am curious to try a "different" headphone and see what it brings to the table after some serious break-in time. If we don't like its signature, we'll always be able to sell it for a good price, maybe even as a collector item, with its pretty leather case and everything.

So it's official now : the famous/infamous Nighthawk Carbon has been ordered today. Come what may. @frogmeat69 , this is all your fault ! lol

----------

2. Next headphones that we'll buy in a couple weeks will definitely be the Sundara. We don't need to listen to them to know that we want to give them a real shot, in our living room, with our EQ, over several weeks, etc..

That makes two 100% sure headphones : a dynamic semi-open, and a planar open. The Nighthawk could be used for bassy music, Rock, Electro, that kind of stuff. Maybe even gaming. The Sundara could be used for all kinds of music where vocals aren't an essential element, possibly including classical music.

----------

3. In parallel, for the third pair, we will definitely schedule one or several auditions in Hi-Fi shops nearby, and if we can, we will listen to :

• Sennheiser HD600 and HD650
• Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro
• Neumann NDH20
• Audio-Technica ATH-AD2000X
• ...?

Here we will be looking for a headphone that's great on vocals, acoustic, jazz, pop, etc.. Our ears will be our guides for this important choice, since that is actually the music that we like the most. "Save the best for last", right ? We'll try to set up an appointment within the next few weeks (we have a busy period ahead until mid-october, but we'll try our best).

Hopefully the third pair will come out of that shortlist. I will of course keep you informed There may even be a fourth pair, if at some point in the future we come across a great deal on, say, the Koss ESP/95X. But that's not sure yet.

Still, even with 3 pairs, the overall budget will be respected : Nighthawk Carbon (250 €) + Sundara (350 €) + 3rd pair (300-400 €) = 900-1000 €. Challenge achieved ! And if a 4th pair came later, that would obviously be another budget, so no worries.

----------

To easily switch between headphones and have individual EQs for each one of them, we will implement the "mini patch bay" solution that I've described in the previous page. So 2 DACs, 2 HP amps (for now), 1 Patch Bay (the day we get a 3rd amp).

I wish there was a single multichannel DAC that could match the Topping E30 measures, for less than 300 €. Unfortunately I haven't found any, so I guess we'll stay with the "E30 + L30" solution for each of us.

For now I only have one question : I'm not a big fan of the fancy silver-plated cable that comes with the Nighthawk Carbon, so I wonder if I could buy another one. It needs to have 2 x 2.5 Jacks on one side, and a 6.35 Jack on the other side. Any URLs or references would be appreciated, because it doesn't seem to be easy to find... We're in France BTW, so let's try to avoid american shops, lol.

Thanks a lot to all of you guys ! You have been most helpful !

 

[Certainkindoffool]

I am thinking now They seem a bit pricey here (700 €), but they have been as low as 490 € on sale. I said looks wouldn't matter, but gosh, they do look nice, lol. I'll update the list. However I'm concerned about the fact that they may be too much colored and bass-heavy.


About the Amiron Home, the DT1990 Pro seems more balanced and neutral where as the Amiron Home is more bassy. I prefer neutrality so I had already decided on the DT1990 Pro before opening this thread. I can't just listen to everything.

Philips Fidelio X2HR : I'm not sure they play on the same league as others in this thread. They seem to be on the "less than 250 €" league. And I'm not talking about price but about performance.

The original Nighthawks can't be found apparently, but I could get a pair of Nighthawk Carbon for only 250 €. Would that be a good deal ? With that said, I've heard some not so good comments about them. Most talk about their lack of transparency (like listening with cotton balls in your ears, lol). I guess it's a particular sound.

UPDATED LIST :

• Electrostat (1) : Koss ESP/95X (and its dedicated amp)
• Planar (1) : Hifiman Sundara
• Closed dynamic (3) : Audio-Technica ATH-AD2000X (caution : fixed cable) / Neumann NDH20 / Denon AH-D7200
• Semi-open dynamic (1) : Audioquest Nighthawk Carbon
• Open dynamic (2) : Sennheiser HD660s / Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro

That's a lot of potentially killer cans...

FWIW, I own a pair of nighthawks and, other than being comfortable, I'm not a fan and should sell them. I also own hifiman edition x v2, and think they are fantastic.

 

[frogmeat69]

So it's official now : the famous/infamous Nighthawk Carbon has been ordered today. Come what may. @frogmeat69 , this is all your fault ! lol

For now I only have one question : I'm not a big fan of the fancy silver-plated cable that comes with the Nighthawk Carbon, so I wonder if I could buy another one. It needs to have 2 x 2.5 Jacks on one side, and a 6.35 Jack on the other side. Any URLs or references would be appreciated, because it doesn't seem to be easy to find... We're in France BTW, so let's try to avoid american shops, lol.

Thanks a lot to all of you guys ! You have been most helpful !

I have owned them for almost 4 years now, at first it took me a while to warm up to them every time I used them, seemed muddy sounding and boomy, then gradually came around to pleasant music, but now they are one of my favorites as soon as they are on my head.
And if you don't like them, someone on head-fi will buy them.

These cables will work for the Nighthawks,
https://www.amazon.fr/rechange-compatible-Hifiman-HE-400I-connecteur/dp/B08CXJNQ9J/ref=sr_1_3?__mk_fr_FR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=audioquest+nighthawk+cable&qid=1600049530&sr=8-3

There are more, just gotta look around.

 

[Robbo99999]

So, here are finally some news. My GF and I have thought a lot about this over the last few days (probably too much, lol), we have discussed it, and we have come to the following conclusions, according to our music tastes and other personal criteria :

----------

1. My GF wanted us to get the Nighthawk Carbon, for the following reasons :

• She loves bass
  
• Their extraordinary comfort was a great plus for her
• They were a great deal at 249 €, and they were available in only one website with limited stock

As for me, I am curious to try a "different" headphone and see what it brings to the table after some serious break-in time. If we don't like its signature, we'll always be able to sell it for a good price, maybe even as a collector item, with its pretty leather case and everything.

So it's official now : the famous/infamous Nighthawk Carbon has been ordered today. Come what may. @frogmeat69 , this is all your fault ! lol

View attachment 82877

----------

2. Next headphones that we'll buy in a couple weeks will definitely be the Sundara. We don't need to listen to them to know that we want to give them a real shot, in our living room, with our EQ, over several weeks, etc..

View attachment 82876

That makes two 100% sure headphones : a dynamic semi-open, and a planar open. The Nighthawk could be used for bassy music, Rock, Electro, that kind of stuff. Maybe even gaming. The Sundara could be used for all kinds of music where vocals aren't an essential element, possibly including classical music.

----------

3. In parallel, for the third pair, we will definitely schedule one or several auditions in Hi-Fi shops nearby, and if we can, we will listen to :

• Sennheiser HD600 and HD650
• Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro
• Neumann NDH20
• Audio-Technica ATH-AD2000X
• ...?

Here we will be looking for a headphone that's great on vocals, acoustic, jazz, pop, etc.. Our ears will be our guides for this important choice, since that is actually the music that we like the most. "Save the best for last", right ? We'll try to set up an appointment within the next few weeks (we have a busy period ahead until mid-october, but we'll try our best).

Hopefully the third pair will come out of that shortlist. I will of course keep you informed There may even be a fourth pair, if at some point in the future we come across a great deal on, say, the Koss ESP/95X. But that's not sure yet.

Still, even with 3 pairs, the overall budget will be respected : Nighthawk Carbon (250 €) + Sundara (350 €) + 3rd pair (300-400 €) = 900-1000 €. Challenge achieved ! And if a 4th pair came later, that would obviously be another budget, so no worries.

----------

To easily switch between headphones and have individual EQs for each one of them, we will implement the "mini patch bay" solution that I've described in the previous page. So 2 DACs, 2 HP amps (for now), 1 Patch Bay (the day we get a 3rd amp).

I wish there was a single multichannel DAC that could match the Topping E30 measures, for less than 300 €. Unfortunately I haven't found any, so I guess we'll stay with the "E30 + L30" solution for each of us.

For now I only have one question : I'm not a big fan of the fancy silver-plated cable that comes with the Nighthawk Carbon, so I wonder if I could buy another one. It needs to have 2 x 2.5 Jacks on one side, and a 6.35 Jack on the other side. Any URLs or references would be appreciated, because it doesn't seem to be easy to find... We're in France BTW, so let's try to avoid american shops, lol.

Thanks a lot to all of you guys ! You have been most helpful !

Well you guys are organised & have a plan! Your choices for a third headphone seem a bit strange to me given you've put a closed back Neumann in with an open back Sennheiser like the HD600, I think they would prove to be very different headphones, so you've got a bit of inconsistency going on there. I think you should go with one of the Sennheisers HD600/HD650, and probably the HD600 if accuracy is your priority, plus it's less money than the 650. I like your choice to include a Planar headphone in your choice of Sundara, as that's something quite different in terms of Planar headphones supposedly having their own set of qualities, although I've never myself listened to a planar headphone. Nighthawk Carbon seems to be an odd choice given you say it's got a very odd frequency response, I think you should replace that with the Neuman closed back and then make sure you get the HD600 for your last (3rd option). So I think I'd be inclined to go: Neumann / Sundara / HD600, because then you've got closed back / planar / open back, I think that's a good combination.....I think it's imperative to get a closed back and an open back (for their different properties) and then you've already chosen your Planar Headphone (Sundara). (Neumann will have plenty of bass for your girlfriend too! )

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Thanks a lot Robbo As I wrote, the Nighthawk have already been ordered, and the Sundara will be shortly.

As for the remaining headphones (those we need to listen to), don't worry : the Neumann are there out of curiosity, to try to understand some people's hype around it (plus they're quite expensive at 500 €). If I had to buy a 3rd headphone right now without listening, it would indeed be the HD600 because it's a safe bet (and a cost-effective one). But let's not underestimate the DT1990 Pro, especially since we intend to EQ it. As for the Audio-Technica, well, we'll see, although it may be difficult to find a shop that has it for listening purposes.

So in the end we'll probably end up with a semi-open (or semi-closed, lol) dynamic, a planar, and an open dynamic. There may not be a full closed, but the Nighthawk is "semi", AND I already own a couple of closed cans (the Sony MDR-CD1000 and the OneOdio Studio Pro-50). Like you said, we have a plan. (we don't know if it's a GOOD plan, but we are trying our best, lol).

 

[Robbo99999]

DT1990 don't look too good to me though with unfixable large sharp dip in the treble:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7zkgbc1b6flevp/Beyerdynamic DT1990 (A Earpads).pdf?dl=0
Assuming that's the Pro, Oratory only lists DT1990 so I don't know if that's the DT1990 Pro.
And it's not particularly great when it comes to distortion:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-a-i/dt-1990-pro/

Yeah, cool, well we've all put our thoughts across, it will be interesting to hear what you think to the different headphones and what you choose to do with them EQ wise & stuff.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

I don't know a "non pro" version of the DT1990, so I was indeed surprised that Oratory lists it as DT1990, but I think they mean "Pro".

The DT1990 Pro has some great and informative reviews on Head-Fi, some even saying that it's a step up from the HD600. So ultimately between the Beyerdynamic and a Sennheiser or an Audio-Technica, I guess it's only a matter of taste. We all have different ears !

 

[Jimbob54]

DT1990 don't look too good to me though with unfixable large sharp dip in the treble:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7zkgbc1b6flevp/Beyerdynamic DT1990 (A Earpads).pdf?dl=0
Assuming that's the Pro, Oratory only lists DT1990 so I don't know if that's the DT1990 Pro.
And it's not particularly great when it comes to distortion:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-a-i/dt-1990-pro/
View attachment 82922

Yeah, cool, well we've all put our thoughts across, it will be interesting to hear what you think to the different headphones and what you choose to do with them EQ wise & stuff.

There is only the pro. It's a very good headphone.

It's a Beyer, but a good Beyer.

 

[Eetu]

Hey @Jose Hidalgo
If you're looking to EQ the NightHawks, here are the AutoEQ (Jaakko Pasanen) filters, based on the InnerFidelity measurements.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Thanks a lot @Eetu ! I had looked in Oratorio website, but I forgot about Jaakko Pasanen.

 

[Robbo99999]

Thanks a lot @Eetu ! I had looked in Oratorio website, but I forgot about Jaakko Pasanen.

InnerFidelity's measurements are a bit off though, there's an "error" that is included in all of them that was never fixed, because the guy that did them made a false assumption right from the get-go and also the measurement equipment he used is not as accurate. I mean it's better than nothing though, and Oratory hasn't measured that one, so I think it's valid to have a go at using an EQ based on InnerFidelity, but it's not as accurate as Oratory's in terms of the "average person/average HRTF".

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Funny @Robbo99999 , that's exactly what I've read 5 minutes ago on another website ! Great minds think alike !
I will try to give priority to Oratory then, and use Jaako's site as a last resort.

 

[Robbo99999]

Funny @Robbo99999 , that's exactly what I've read 5 minutes ago on another website ! Great minds think alike !
I will try to give priority to Oratory then, and use Jaako's site as a last resort.

Yeah, and if you're trying Oratory's EQ's get them from his pdf files rather than using the Oratory EQ's on Jaako's, because I think they're different (not sure).

 

[Jimbob54]

InnerFidelity's measurements are a bit off though, there's an "error" that is included in all of them that was never fixed, because the guy that did them made a false assumption right from the get-go and also the measurement equipment he used is not as accurate. I mean it's better than nothing though, and Oratory hasn't measured that one, so I think it's valid to have a go at using an EQ based on InnerFidelity, but it's not as accurate as Oratory's in terms of the "average person/average HRTF".

I really wish you would stop saying this. You've set up in your mind and your frequent comments that the world of headphone EQ is Oratory /Harman and then the rest.

It's ultimately the turning of a few (virtual) knobs to taste. Refer people to the resources but please stop the proselytising. You've EQ what, 2 headphones to how many different settings? You like what it's done for yours, great. But please calm down.

 

[Robbo99999]

I really wish you would stop saying this. You've set up in your mind and your frequent comments that the world of headphone EQ is Oratory /Harman and then the rest.

It's ultimately the turning of a few (virtual) knobs to taste. Refer people to the resources but please stop the proselytising. You've EQ what, 2 headphones to how many different settings? You like what it's done for yours, great. But please calm down.

I'm not lying though, it's common knowledge that there are some deficiencies with Innerfidelity measurements. And we don't need to have an argument about the Harman Headphone Target Curve - of course it's not gonna fit everyone.

 

[Jimbob54]

I'm not lying though, it's common knowledge that there are some deficiencies with Innerfidelity measurements. And we don't need to have an argument about the Harman Headphone Target Curve - of course it's not gonna fit everyone.

Fully understand where you are coming from, it just sometimes reads a bit full on. Anyway, spleen vented, carry on.

 

[Robbo99999]

Fully understand where you are coming from, it just sometimes reads a bit full on. Anyway, spleen vented, carry on.

Well if I'm recommending to newbies (or anyone really) I can always include the caveat that Harman Headphone Target Curve won't fit everyone due to how people's HRTF's differ, but I'll keep recommending it as I think it's the best EQ to try first (by virtue of the research and also the ease of trying it).....and then if they don't like the result they can tweak a bit as already Oratory includes advice on how to tweak his EQ's, and specifically on his most recent pdf's he's uploaded he adds perhaps 3 or 4 filters that can be changed in gain to change different properties that he describes in his latest pdf's. And if none of that works for them then they can try other EQ options / procedures, but other people would have to recommend/describe those....which I'm cool about.