18Sound 15" and Audiohorn X-Shape 2-way build

[Flaesh]

all active?

Yeah. Flex8 and Toppings V3 stereo. IIR, current state, a crossover somewhere around 3-4 kHz.

measured at about 6". Some time ago, I used BMS drivers with a recommended passive filter.
Currently, the main task is MB-WG crossover. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now. As for subwoofers, it's simpler – just connect and set them up as before.
I haven't been trying to get deep bass from a 15-inch mid-bass driver for quite some time now. Therefore, a simple 40-liter enclosure is sufficient for my midrange driver, with a little equalization to flatten the response in the 88-666 Hz range.

 

[Flaesh]

something that allowed me to angle the horn up and down a bit

Do you think this is necessary? But perhaps in some cases it could(?) be useful... What is your room layout?
Regarding the crossover frequency – a lower frequency (as low as the CD-WG combo allows) usually seems better\simpler. This applies to home systems with a listening distance of several meters.

 

[TulseLuper]

Do you think this is necessary? But perhaps in some cases it could(?) be useful... What is your room layout?
Regarding the crossover frequency – a lower frequency (as low as the CD-WG combo allows) usually seems better\simpler. This applies to home systems with a listening distance of several meters.

Not necessary no. I'm not sure where these will end up or what the listening distance will be, so thought it might be good to be able to point them up/down a few degrees.

 

[Elgrosso]

Very nice result on the box radius. Do you have any more tip on the combo table saw/plane/sander?
I don’t have a table saw so I’m still studying easier options, like maybe premade corners (something like https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/tpl-200h-td8m-18n862.436383/post-8206018)

I’m mildly annoyed with Audiohorn as they announced a smooth-backed version of their X-shape horns shortly after I received mine. The back side of my horn is quite ugly and messy. For anyone ordering, know you can request this:

That’s the version I got, I believe it was the first one.
I was happily surprised as was still considering free air, but they will finally go in a box (if we were closer I’d have suggested an exchange).
But I feel you as there’s even a newer version now : https://audiohorn.net/horn/rx-shape/

 

[TulseLuper]

Do you have any more tip on the combo table saw/plane/sander?

No tips really, just what it looks like. I didn't worry too much about tear out on the plywood cause I'm going to veneer the box. It's not super clean or perfect but feels smooth and straight and veneer will be able to wrap around it well.

if we were closer I’d have suggested an exchange

Would have been nice! I'm still annoyed. I got my bracket from send cut send and it works really well but the horn is just a huge mess from the back. Not sure what I'm going to do about it. Probably ignore it, but I'm considering a veneer there as well.

 

[Elgrosso]

Maybe fill the holes and smooth it out?

 

[Bas Horneman]

I agree fill it up with butyl. The part to cover the butyl is harder to make pretty. Not sure how one would go about that.

 

[cany89]

Hi @TulseLuper and @tmuikku , I'm also building a 15-inch + horn with ATH. I considered the good old Faital 15PR400 (Calpamos and many others used it), but then found 18 sound 15ntlw3500. But there is not much subjective feedback about it. So far, have you had a chance to listen to it? Or even better compared with another woofer?

Thanks a lot.

 

[TulseLuper]

Hi @TulseLuper and @tmuikku , I'm also building a 15-inch + horn with ATH. I considered the good old Faital 15PR400 (Calpamos and many others used it), but then found 18 sound 15ntlw3500. But there is not much subjective feedback about it. So far, have you had a chance to listen to it? Or even better compared with another woofer?

Thanks a lot.

Had a couple of setbacks and been very busy. I did measurements a while back which look off to me so I wouldn't put too much stock in them. Beaming seems to start too early (under 300Hz). Also the lack of low end is weird. Maybe my port is whack. These were in a large garage with mic ~18" off the baffle. That said, nice to see breakup is all the way up at ~1.2kHz. Would like to do ground plane measurements but haven't been able to set that up yet.

I applied a bunch of EQ and did a quick x-over with the horn for a quick and dirty listening test, but got some terrible distortion from the CD which I haven't figured out yet. So, all in all, unfortunately nothing substantive to report yet!

 

[cany89]

but got some terrible distortion from the CD which I haven't figured out yet.

Bummer!

Beaming seems to start too early (under 300Hz).

Wierd

I hope you find a chance to listen to it before I buy a pair, and they sound great!

 

[Flaesh]

got some terrible distortion from the CD which I haven't figured out yet

Was it one or both of the two drivers that produced this terrible distortion?

 

[TulseLuper]

Was it one or both of the two drivers that produced this terrible distortion?

I only tested one so far. It sounded like a mechanical issue in the driver, but I can't say for sure at this point.

 

[Flaesh]

That's sad. Did you buy used drivers?

By the way, I just noticed the 2060 label)).

 

[TulseLuper]

That's sad. Did you buy used drivers?

By the way, I just noticed the 2060 label)).

They were new. I should have time this afternoon to investigate further.

The 2060 and 1460 are the same driver. The 2060 just has a 1.4-2.0 inch adapter bolted on, which I removed.

 

[Flaesh]

The 2060 and 1460 are the same driver. The 2060 just has a 1.4-2.0 inch adapter bolted on, which I removed.

Yes, many 2" drivers are 1.4" with adapter. I don't know if the warranty is still valid after removing the adapter.

 

[tmuikku]

Hi @TulseLuper and @tmuikku , I'm also building a 15-inch + horn with ATH. I considered the good old Faital 15PR400 (Calpamos and many others used it), but then found 18 sound 15ntlw3500. But there is not much subjective feedback about it. So far, have you had a chance to listen to it? Or even better compared with another woofer?

Thanks a lot.

I'm using it on a ratker small sealed box, works great, long party outside high SPL nice sound as well as in home use, no issues. High passed ~80Hz abouts to subs. I haven't done comparison side by side with anything else on this system though. At home I got some faital 15fh520 as bass in a 3-way setting and they are also work fine, haven't tried higher xo though, as in two way. Haven't tried pr400, perhaps it sounds good I have no idea. If many people say it does, it doesn't mean it really does in your setting to you unless you are confident on some of the folk that praise them. Most of the time feedback is either from marketing department, or some person that haven't had anything else or real AB comparison. So, be sure to find out who has and what they say to have "real" perspective. It's difficult though, if you don't have too much experience.

I think sound is mostly in system design, not in particular driver. And when it comes time to select a driver I'd select high technical performance for the budget, or buy two of the most interesting ones and do real AB comparison in the actual implementation and application to measure and listen if there is any difference and choose the better one, or the cheaper one if no meaningful difference. NTLW3500 certainly has high technical performance and isn't that expensive, I think pr400 isn't too expensive either and given both are quite popular I bet you could buy both and try, then sell. Try find aftermarket ones. When you do it yourself like this, there is no need to ask from others and you can be confident to select correct one for your application. Also, now you have more experience than 99% of people on the internet. Have fun!

 

[cany89]

@tmuikku thanks for your comments. I actually usually read your posts on DIYaudio as well. Learned a lot from you so far.

I'm using it on a ratker small sealed box, works great,

I'll build a 60L sealed as well.

If many people say it does, it doesn't mean it really does in your setting to you unless you are confident on some of the folk that praise them. Most of the time feedback is either from marketing department, or some person that haven't had anything else or real AB comparison. So, be sure to find out who has and what they say to have "real" perspective. It's difficult though, if you don't have too much experience.

You are absolutely right. I try my best to make objective tests that are really time consuming. I built 2 x dummy boxes tuned around the same Qtc for the selected drivers, filtered them to 100-750, EQ'd to the same frequency response on the listening spot, and compared the mid-range capabilities of 15PR and SB34 in mono... (to see if 15 inch can catch up with a 12 inch, within their budget leage ofc.) I can't buy all drivers and do tests with my limited hobby time, so I like to ask around for hidden gem reviews as well - but as you've said, who knows what the reviewer is hearing, in room acoustics and speaker... Completely blind shot.

NTLW3500 certainly has high technical performance and isn't that expensive, I think pr400 isn't too expensive either and given both are quite popular I bet you could buy both and try, then sell. Try find aftermarket ones.

That's what I will do for sure. I'm only thinking of AE TD15M as a high-end driver. But I want to make sure I like my choices with this design first. Then maybe upgrade...

Also, now you have more experience than 99% of people on the internet. Have fun!

Thanks a lot!

 

[TulseLuper]

I have some new measurements. I am confused about why there is just so little low end output here from the woofer. I might print a port with a larger diameter (this one is 4") and see if that helps.

Here is on axis, ~18" from the baffle plus a measurement from the back side, 18" away from the port. Indoors ungated:

And here is are measurements at roughly 0, 15, 30, and 45 degrees. The falloff makes a lot more sense here than in my last set of measurements:

In order to get flat-ish nearfield on-axis response, this is this EQ I used. Of course I have tons of reserve power and excursion from the driver in my use case, but I didn't think this would be necessary. If it doesn't matter, fine, but if I'm fighting against a structural issue I'd like to fix that issue.

Fortunately, the terrible distortion from the horn just disappeared. I wonder if it was an amplifier or connection thing. It shows a normal response with low distortion:

 

[cany89]

I have some new measurements. I am confused about why there is just so little low end output here from the woofer.

My Faital 15PR450 measurements are just like that. (Sealed box) I guess the manufacturer measurements are IEC standard or different baffle (they write it on notes usually) and most mid woofers have declining frequency response below 300-500 Hz. That’s why most loudspeaker design bibles says base the filters and levels around 100-200 Hz output.

Hope this helps. (I’m not expert, just going through the same process)

 

[Flaesh]

For example:

This is an old catalog, it's 15 years old.

the terrible distortion from the horn just disappeared.

It's nice to read this!