16-bit... It really is enough!

[mansr]

Can someone point me toward a single piece of recorded music , encompassing 90 dB of Dynamic Range?

That Telarc 1812 recording probably could have been mixed that way.

 

[ebslo]

Hi

Followed this learned discussion and .. a stupid request:

Can someone point me toward a single piece of recorded music , encompassing 90 dB of Dynamic Range?

Anything of quality with a fade in/out or a moment where everything stops. Since peaks are usually near full scale, dynamic range is just determined by how quite the "silent" parts are; it's just like TV's where dynamic range is dominated by how dark "black" is.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Anything of quality with a fade in/out or a moment where everything stops. Since peaks are usually near full scale, dynamic range is just determined by how quite the "silent" parts are; it's just like TV's where dynamic range is dominated by how dark "black" is.

I think the point is not how quiet the fade out, or silence between tracks is but how quiet the quietest bit of actual music on a recording is.
That is the real thing determining how much dynamic range the playback system actually needs.

That Telarc 1812 recording probably could have been mixed that way.

Could have been, almost certainly but was it?
I doubt it, I don't think any record company would be daft enough to release a recording only one in a million people would have the equipment and room to properly play back.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Anything of quality with a fade in/out or a moment where everything stops. Since peaks are usually near full scale, dynamic range is just determined by how quite the "silent" parts are; it's just like TV's where dynamic range is dominated by how dark "black" is.

But that isn't the range while music is playing. If it is a live event it would be the noise without music, but prior to a fade out.

Frank beat me to it.

 

[Blumlein 88]

That Telarc 1812 recording probably could have been mixed that way.

I seem to recall it was something like 68 to 70 dB. I've one recording by BIS which is 74 dB which is the most I've seen.

 

[rdenney]

I think the point is not how quiet the fade out, or silence between tracks is but how quiet the quietest bit of actual music on a recording is.
That is the real thing determining how much dynamic range the playback system actually needs.

When I'm ripping LPs, I have to crank the volume way up in headphones to be sure I mark track boundaries after the fade-out is really done. Even in headphones, if the peaks are tolerable, I can't hear all of the fade-out. And that's with vinyl, where the noise floor obscures the fade-out at only -65ish dB FS (probably not that good with most LPs, and certainly most LPs that I own).

The question is how much of the fade-out must we hear? Once we can no longer hear it, the fade-out has done its job. Fade-outs are recording-studio tricks because the usual live-performance rock-music ending--everyone riffing and looking at the drummer until he telegraphs a big final crash--gets a bit boring on a recording.

Of course, the only fade-out for many genres of music is the reverberation following the final note.

Rick "whose listening conditions preclude hearing those signals below 12 or 13 bits" Denney

 

[FrantzM]

I think the point is not how quiet the fade out, or silence between tracks is but how quiet the quietest bit of actual music on a recording is.
That is the real thing determining how much dynamic range the playback system actually needs.

Could have been, almost certainly but was it?
I doubt it, I don't think any record company would be daft enough to release a recording only one in a million people would have the equipment and room to properly play back.

Thanks Frank!
I’ve read though the thread and can understand the case made for recording at least 20 bits. IMHO 24 dB is where the hard stop should be. For content distribution and for all Audio systems, even those in rooms with 20 dB of background noise, 16 bits are enough.

 

[mansr]

Could have been, almost certainly but was it?

With a 10 ms window, my CD copy has a peak to minimum RMS range of 68 dB.

 

[Inner Space]

With a 10 ms window, my CD copy has a peak to minimum RMS range of 68 dB.

That sounds about right. Very early in my career, in 1978, I worked broadcast sound for Israel's 30th anniversary concert. The closing number was the 1812, with Zubin Mehta and the ISO, plus big fireworks and an actual howitzer from one of the IDF's artillery regiments. The concert was live and outdoor. Noise floor at the downstroke was about 50dB SPL. The raw mike feed had the howitzer at about 140dB SPL. We squashed the TV feed to about 20dB (1978, remember, when domestic TVs were feeble) but we made a very early and experimental digital recording too, in case anyone wanted it, and to learn how. Turned out to be useless for release because of various rookie mistakes, but we got a 70dB range out of it.

 

[Sound Liaison]

Boutique labels often record at 96 kHz or higher. Check out Sound Liaison if you haven't. They have some nice recordings (IMO). The aforementioned 2L also record at high rates, just as another example.

Thank you!
it is an honor to be mentioned together with 2L.
They record mostly classical while we are more jazz and blues orientated. But I find great inspiration in their technical set up and Morten's superb attention to detail.