12 x 12 room: Kef LS60 or LS50W + sub?

[keiron99]

I'm cutting down on the box count and simplifying my system.

All I have left is a REL T9 sub (with a 10" cone) in my 12 feet x 12 feet room.

One thing I don't have is technical knowledge...which doesn't stop me spending waaay too much time reading this forum!

I have decided I'm going to get either the KEF LS50 Wireless ii system or LS60. If I got the LS60, the plan would be to ditch the sub.

Quite simply, for my room, would I be better off with the LS50 plus my sub, or the LS60 without the sub?

 

[Willem]

In a square room room modes will be a real problem. Therefore, you realley need dsp room equalization of one kind or another, and I would also suggest to use at least two subwoofers (Multi Sub Optimizer would be the best software, but it is not easy to set up).

 

[dshreter]

If looking at ONLY the two options of LS60 or LS50 + REL T9, then LS60 is easily the better option. LS60 has superior bass response compared to the T9, plus you would effectively have dual subwoofers which significantly aids in the in-room behavior.

 

[PGansz]

LS60 is the perfect speaker system to ditch boxes and the right size for that environment. Real-world testing shows distortion above mid 90's SPL. 100% get the LS60 and ditch your sub.

 

[Willem]

Get the LS60s, keep the T9, and add another sub. Use MSO to equalize all four.

 

[keiron99]

Thanks for the comments.

However, I'm not gonna lie, DSP room equalization and adding yet more subs is just not going to happen. Also somewhat defeats the object of having the whole hifi "solution" in just two boxes!

Would the bass on the LS60 be deficient without a sub though? (Or, at least, compared to my previous set up of Harbeth M30.1 with the 10 inch REL sub.)

 

[PGansz]

If the goal is removing gear and simplifying to make best use of your limited space, get the LS60's and move on.

You should not need subs in a 12x12 room with the built in EQ. You should be seeing 30hz in room with the correct positioning. But everyone's tastes are different.

I'm guessing if you're considering removing the sub you're not a bass-head anyway.

 

[Willem]

Personally I would not ditch the Harbeths. They are good speakers. Why trade one good speaker for another? Your real issue is the small square room. Since the two main dimensions are identical you get a doubling of the dominant room mode, and at quite high frequencies given the small size of the room, and hence a bloated booming bass.
So your first step should be to get a mini DSP Umik-1 measuring microphone and measure in-room response using the free REW software. You will be horrified. Next trry moving around the speakers and sub to see if you can get rid of the massive peak of the room mode. You may be able to improve things, but my bet is that it will still be pretty horrible. Next use REW to design a filter to reduce that peak, and see if that makes you happier (but only for one listening position). Next, study room acoustics, the benefits of multiple subs, and the use of dsp room eq.
Like it or not, your real problem is this small square room. Because it is small the room modes will be at higher frequencies, and hence are more objectionable. And because it is square the two major room modes will be added, making them far more obvious.. Of course, if you want a simpler system you could just ditch the sub and add serious dsp room eq. That will improve your sound far more than jumping to a different speaker that will suffer from the same horrible room acoustics. How about a DSpeaker X2 for room equalization and as a basic preamp/DAC? It is dead easy to plement. If you are happy top spend time, MSO is the way to go, but there are other options as well, such as Dirac.

 

[Moonbase]

I have ls50 meta’s and a rel sub for my office. The ls50 are near field monitors. They are exception in this configuration. Thing is they don’t go loud and therefore I think would be disappointing in a large room. I’ve seen good reviews of ls60 but have no experience.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I have a 12 X 12 X 8 room. My set up is LS 50 Metas with 2 SVS SB 2000's. I have Purifi Eval 1 amplification, and Dirac Live + DLBC. The speakers a 5' apart and 5' from my listening position. They are 2' out from the back and side walls. They sound very good. I cross over at around 150 hz. Can not play them at rock concert levels, but they seem loud enough for most music, and bass goes extremely deep.

None of this would be possible without some sort of bass correction in the room, though. I measured some horrendous peaks, and Dirac tamed them nicely.

Probably be easier to just get the LS 60's, but as the measurements show, they can't play louder than around 96-100 db. I think my setup can get a little louder a (and go deeper as well), though I seldom if ever put it to the test. Also, you will have to worry about when KEF ceases to support the LS 60 hardware and firmware (and they will). In all probability, LS 60's have a use life of 5 years or less, while I'm quite confident I can find a way to keep my LS 50 Metas on the job for the next 20 years or more.

 

[lowkeyoperations]

If there is no way to run room correction on the LS60 I’d be going with the LS50s plus Dirac live or your preferred choice of room correction.

 

[AudioJester]

Having heard LS50 meta with subs and LS60 in the same room, I would definitely go LS60. Particularly if you are looking to simplify your system - the LS60 is about as simple as it gets.

 

[keiron99]

Having heard LS50 meta with subs and LS60 in the same room, I would definitely go LS60. Particularly if you are looking to simplify your system - the LS60 is about as simple as it gets.

Thanks. In that comparison was the LS60 just playing on its without the sub(s)?

 

[AudioJester]

Thanks. In that comparison was the LS60 just playing on its without the sub(s)?

Yes, no sub. Both setups had bass eq.

Not a fan of ls50 meta - where you need to xover with subs >120Hz. But others seem to like it.

To throw a curveball - check out the new Ascilab A6b passive (active version in development as well). In your price bracket and incredible measurements compared to either Kef

 

[keiron99]

Thanks for all the advice on room correction, dirac etc but I'm afraid that just isn't going to happen for various reasons. Reason I'm trying to simplify is primarily health, so really just looking for a simple fit/forget/play solution.

 

[Moonbase]

I would not get to hung up on the LS50 meta’s xover frequency, it just works and sounds great. At the the end of the days that is what matters. Get a decent amp with room correction

If you want better options for a bigger room then the buchardt s400 would fit the bill.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

... so really just looking for a simple fit/forget/play solution.

LS 60 for sure then. It will do some simple corrections, set and forget.

Personally I would not bother with subs in a room of that size with speakers that go to 40hz, even without "simplicity" as a design goal.

 

[Willem]

Thanks for all the advice on room correction, dirac etc but I'm afraid that just isn't going to happen for various reasons. Reason I'm trying to simplify is primarily health, so really just looking for a simple fit/forget/play solution.

I am all for simplicity, but we have no idea about the rest of your system. Choosing one type of speaker over another has nothing to do with simplicity, and I still don't understand why you would consider ditching the Harbeths. They are not more complex than another speaker, and they are good. Complexity potentially only comes in at the electronics/sources end of the story. The simplest solution there is streaming internet radio and a music service like Spotify, at least that is what I would think.
As for sound quality, your real issue is room modes in your room, and dealing with them does not have to be complex. The DSpeaker ANtimode X2 does fully automatic room equalization, and if you find that too complex, get the dealer to set it up for you: https://www.dspeaker.com/anti-mode-x2. The only other thing you need will be a cool running power amplifier with an auto on/off facility, and locate that power amplifier in a cupboard. That way, you will only see one tiny box and a remote control, plus speakers, of course. The X2 will also integrate the subwoofer if you want to.

 

[lowkeyoperations]

Thanks for all the advice on room correction, dirac etc but I'm afraid that just isn't going to happen for various reasons. Reason I'm trying to simplify is primarily health, so really just looking for a simple fit/forget/play solution.

Why not the Dynaudio Focus 30? They have everything in one package including room correction via built in Dirac Live.

There are some good LS60 vs Focus 30 comparisons on YouTube.