10K€ System Challenge (specs inside)

[Jose Hidalgo]

OK guys, there is just ONE thing that I truly dislike about Genelec, and I apologize in advance for saying this in such a technical place, but...
... the 7370 subs are ugly as hell !!! lol. Sorry but that's the truth. I don't see them fitting in our living room, my wife would never agree.
Again, I'm sorry, I promised myself that aesthetics wouldn't be an issue vs. sound quality... but there are some limits to what I can put at home.

Genelec provides a prettier alternative with the 8351B + W371A bundle : https://www.genelec.com/high-end-listening/8351b-w371a-stereo-system
I would gladly commit to that. But unfortunately, a single W371A costs more than a pair of 8351B ! Which would leave that bundle way out of my price range.

So currently I don't have an "ideal" solution on the Genelec side for my +/-10K budget :

• 2 x 8351B alone : lacking subs
• 2 x (8351B + 7370) : great, but not WAF compliant
• 2 x (8351B + W371A) : amazing, but too expensive
• 2 x 1238 : look is questionable indeed for a home environment.

 

[q3cpma]

OK guys, there is just ONE thing that I truly dislike about Genelec, and I apologize in advance for saying this in such a technical place, but...
... the 7370 subs are ugly as hell !!! lol. Sorry but that's the truth. I don't see them fitting in our living room, my wife would never agree.
Again, I'm sorry, I promised myself that aesthetics wouldn't be an issue vs. sound quality... but there are some limits to what I can put at home.

Genelec provides a prettier alternative with the 8351B + W371A bundle : https://www.genelec.com/high-end-listening/8351b-w371a-stereo-system
I would gladly commit to that. But unfortunately, a single W371A costs more than a pair of 8351B ! Which would leave that bundle way out of my price range.

So currently I don't have an "ideal" solution on the Genelec side for my +/-10K budget :

• 2 x 8351B alone : lacking subs
• 2 x (8351B + 7370) : great, but not WAF compliant
• 2 x (8351B + W371A) : amazing, but too expensive
• 2 x 1238 : look is questionable indeed for a home environment.

Or 2 x 8361A, which should bring the necessary humph. I mean, I know I said it wouldn't be night and day, but the 8361A has 60% more woofer area; the thing is that I'd rather take the 1238 than the 8361.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

So you really want to play Tarzan then But with that said, it was you who nearly convinced me on page 2 that 8351B would be a better choice than 8361A ! Aaaaargh

 

[EchoChamber]

OK guys, there is just ONE thing that I truly dislike about Genelec, and I apologize in advance for saying this in such a technical place, but...
... the 7370 subs are ugly as hell !!! lol. Sorry but that's the truth. I don't see them fitting in our living room, my wife would never agree.
Again, I'm sorry, I promised myself that aesthetics wouldn't be an issue vs. sound quality... but there are some limits to what I can put at home.

Genelec provides a prettier alternative with the 8351B + W371A bundle : https://www.genelec.com/high-end-listening/8351b-w371a-stereo-system
I would gladly commit to that. But unfortunately, a single W371A costs more than a pair of 8351B ! Which would leave that bundle way out of my price range.

So currently I don't have an "ideal" solution on the Genelec side for my +/-10K budget :

• 2 x 8351B alone : lacking subs
• 2 x (8351B + 7370) : great, but not WAF compliant
• 2 x (8351B + W371A) : amazing, but too expensive
• 2 x 1238 : look is questionable indeed for a home environment.

lol, 100% the Gen subs are ugly as hell... That’s also one of the reasons I’m not considering them.

Missing on your list of options are the 8361A. That might be all you need. And possibly WAF compliant. The W371A are impressive though... $$$€€€

 

[pierre]

if Size is not an issue. What about hedd https://hedd.audio/towermains/? Also 10K and good specs

 

[q3cpma]

if Size is not an issue. What about hedd https://hedd.audio/towermains/? Also 10K and good specs

What specs? They don't seem to give any graph about frequency response or directivity.

 

[q3cpma]

So you really want to play Tarzan then But with that said, it was you who nearly convinced me on page 2 that 8351B would be a better choice than 8361A ! Aaaaargh

Well, it IS better, but 4~5 m without a sub is a delicate situation.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

On that we agree I have a big living room, and next one will be even bigger, so near field is not an option. My current listening spot is easily 5m from the speakers. In the future it may even be 6m, I haven't measured it precisely.

Size is not an issue indeed, and look-wise the Hedd Tower Mains would be WAF compliant, so no worries on that side.
But lack of specs aside, they seem to be way out of budget anyway. No french resellers, and @pierre , at House of Sound (Basel) they are listed at 10.000 each for the standard tower, or 15.000 each for the extended tower...

 

[pierre]

On that we agree I have a big living room, and next one will be even bigger, so near field is not an option. My current listening spot is easily 5m from the speakers. In the future it may even be 6m, I haven't measured it precisely.

Size is not an issue indeed, and look-wise the Hedd Tower Mains would be WAF compliant, so no worries on that side.
But lack of specs aside, they seem to be way out of budget anyway. No french resellers, and @pierre , at House of Sound (Basel) they are listed at 10.000 each for the standard tower, or 15.000 each for the extended tower...

My bad, I thought it was for a pair.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

No worries Pierre
q3cpma, well, you said this :

The thing is that your need for a subwoofer probably won't be cured just by going a bit bigger, which makes the 8361A not very useful.

Anyway, my point is that there seems to be no "ideal" Genelec solution for my 10K budget.
Best one seems to be a pair of 8361A, while not being ideal for a 5m listening point.

So let's keep Genelec on the shortlist. But what if we took a 8361A (without subs) and compared it to D&D 8C and Kii Three (without BXT) ? Now it becomes interesting !

 

[Balle Clorin]

Why not add some more money and Get to the Final solution at once;
1. Install Roon on your PC, Collects all your stored and TIDAL music, includes
DSP capabiities.
2. Kii Three active speakers. If you wonder why check Google.

no experience with this my self but maybe next year

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

@Balle Clorin , sorry but it has already been said in this thread. Roon (or ANY other player) is 100% out of the question, and it has nothing to do with money. If you wonder why, check this post : https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/10k€-system-challenge-specs-inside.15344/post-486656

Kii Three are already in the shortlist (without BXT, unless you want to offer me 20 K€ ).
Google is not useful to make a difference : Kii reviews are great, but D&D reviews are great too, and Genelec reviews are great too.
I find it funny, people who just say "why not add some more money" Right. I guess I'll start a crowfunding then, lol.

 

[q3cpma]

No worries Pierre
q3cpma, well, you said this :

Anyway, my point is that there seems to be no "ideal" Genelec solution for my 10K budget.
Best one seems to be a pair of 8361A, while not being ideal for a 5m listening point.

So let's keep Genelec on the shortlist. But what if we took a 8361A (without subs) and compared it to D&D 8C and Kii Three (without BXT) ? Now it becomes interesting !

There is maybe the S360, but it's very expensive, not really full range and only a 2-way. The 1238A is probably the only thing that could go comfortably without a subwoofer.

What is your typical listening level? Because maybe you don't need that much SPL.

Why not add some more money and Get to the Final solution at once;
1. Install Roon on your PC, Collects all your stored and TIDAL music, includes
DSP capabiities.
2. Kii Three active speakers. If you wonder why check Google.

no experience with this my self but maybe next year

The Kii can't do full-range at that distance. Even the D&D will probably struggle, and it's a lot bigger.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Well, the good news is that I don't need a lot of SPL. I haven't measured it precisely though, but I would hardly pump up the volume to unreasonable levels. I listen to a lot of things, from Pop to Classical, but I like to keep it "reasonably loud". I don't listen to very loud Hip-Hop / Electro / Dubstep. Sure, someday I'd love to hear huge organ pipes to 20 Hz and below, but I won't buy a system just for that. I can always go to an auditorium (or to a church, lol). So that's something I can live without.

The S360 are 4K€ each FYI. And the 1238A are 5,5K€ each. Do you really believe that the 1238A would perform better than the 8361A in my environment ? If yes it would be a pity, because, well, they are ugly monsters, lol.

So Genelec aside, maybe D&D is the best compromise for my case, like people have been saying along this thread : big enough, almost full-range, and even WAF compliant, lol. That will have to be confirmed by listening tests anyway. Too bad D&D stands are so ugly ! I hope I can find better stands on the market.

 

[EchoChamber]

Well, the good news is that I don't need a lot of SPL. I haven't measured it precisely though, but I would hardly pump up the volume to unreasonable levels. I listen to a lot of things, from Pop to Classical, but I like to keep it "reasonably loud". I don't listen to very loud Hip-Hop / Electro / Dubstep. Sure, someday I'd love to hear huge organ pipes to 20 Hz and below, but I won't buy a system just for that. I can always go to an auditorium (or to a church, lol). So that's something I can live without.

The S360 are 4K€ each FYI. And the 1238A are 5,5K€ each. Do you really believe that the 1238A would perform better than the 8361A in my environment ? If yes it would be a pity, because, well, they are ugly monsters, lol.

So Genelec aside, maybe D&D is the best compromise for my case, like people have been saying along this thread : big enough, almost full-range, and even WAF compliant, lol. That will have to be confirmed by listening tests anyway. Too bad D&D stands are so ugly ! I hope I can find better stands on the market.

I think you’ll need to look at large boxes to fill your room with some kind of accurate response. I’m not an expert in sound design though, I’d recommend shooting emails to the companies you are considering and see what they tell you.

 

[EchoChamber]

There is maybe the S360, but it's very expensive, not really full range and only a 2-way. The 1238A is probably the only thing that could go comfortably without a subwoofer.

I’ve looked at the S360 too, but I think they are overkill for my listening space. @Jose Hidalgo

 

[Kal Rubinson]

@VintageFlanker , thanks for your insight. The A700 is kind of new though : I haven't found any reviews yet for it. The wireless feature looks interesting if quality isn't affected (can it handle a full uncompressed 24/192 data stream, buffer it on the speaker side and play it in perfect sync without jittering issues ?)

Since it runs under WiSA, the answer is yes to all questions except that the datastream is limited to 24/96, afaik.

 

[LTig]

Since they haven't been mentioned yet:

• DAC: RME ADI-2 DAC because of its EQ which can be used for room EQ
• Speakers: either Neumann KH420 as 2.0 or Neumann KH310 + sub as 2.1 or 2.2. For your listening distance the KH420 might be better suited.

Why the Neumanns? Because both are 3-ways which reduces IMD and gives a better spinorama.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

@EchoChamber , like I said I don't need a lot of SPL either.

Like q3cpma said, at 5 m, the 8351B can do 92 dB continuous / 102 dB peaks, while the 8361A does 99 / 108.
The D&D 8C can deliver 106dB @1m from 35 Hz up. That makes 92 dB @5m (or 95 dB for both speakers). How much for the peaks, I don't know.
The Kii Three can deliver 105dB long term, 110dB short term, 115dB peak. That makes 91 dB @5m (or 94 dB for both speakers), and 101dB for the peaks.

So SPL-wise :

• Continuous @5m : Kii Three (91) / D&D 8C (92) / 8351B (92) / 8361A (99)
• Peaks @5m : Kii Three (101) / D&D 8C (?) / 8351B (102) / 8361A (108)

I don't know if that's enough, but I can listen to them @5m and see what happens.
EDIT - plus there may be some room gain involved.

@LTig , thanks for the RME DAC. RME was indeed in my list, it's a great brand that I've been following for the last 10 years or so. The Neumann KH420 were already mentioned in this thread at least twice.

Oh, and @Kal Rubinson , thanks and I hope we can see a review of the A700 in the near future. Fingers crossed !

 

[MarsianC#]

S&R Measurment S360
You will need subs, -6 dB at 36 Hz is not what you have asked for. Nevertheless, they can play quite (crazy) loud.
What about Geithain? Perfect for bigger listening distances. WAF might be a problem
Ah any chance on (light) acoustic treatment?

PS: 3,5k in Germany