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These have a high distortion relative to their high cost.
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$10,000 budget for mains. Used/New, what are you buying?
- Thread starter sneabs
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I haven't heard these D&D 8C speakers but from Erins website (not sure what the latest linking policy covers):
"Speaking of distortion, yes, the measured harmonic distortion is relatively high. But, in my listening tests I had this speaker playing as high as 105dB @ 4 meters with no audible distortion other than the things that were buzzing in my living room. I even used test tones to see if I could hear the distortion in my MLP but, alas, the fireplace was vibrating as were some of the items in the bookshelves. Not to mention room modes. I’m not saying that someone else couldn’t hear the distortion if trying. But in my case, in a real living room with other things about, the distortion measured didn’t correlate to distortion heard if for no other reason than it was masked by all the things that make a real room a room. "
"Speaking of distortion, yes, the measured harmonic distortion is relatively high. But, in my listening tests I had this speaker playing as high as 105dB @ 4 meters with no audible distortion other than the things that were buzzing in my living room. I even used test tones to see if I could hear the distortion in my MLP but, alas, the fireplace was vibrating as were some of the items in the bookshelves. Not to mention room modes. I’m not saying that someone else couldn’t hear the distortion if trying. But in my case, in a real living room with other things about, the distortion measured didn’t correlate to distortion heard if for no other reason than it was masked by all the things that make a real room a room. "
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Its interesting, some people complain that its audible. I got as loud as I could tolerate with the 8c and distortion was not an issue - that was in a very large open room at a distance of 5-6m. Probably one of those things you need to test for yourself - if it can get loud enough. I think Amir and Erin test louder than your average home user.
So very interesting that many suggestions for 10k are not even floor standers.
Alice of Old Vincennes
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Why would anyone desire whole house resonance post age 16?I would strongly consider the Neumann KH420.
“The performance of the KH 420 was superb. The bass at times was quite scary and it causes resonance in the entire house. You felt like you were in a vibration chamber with tracks that extended down to 20 Hz and lower”
Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Neumann 3-way, active speaker (monitor). It is on loan from the company and costs US $5,195. Speaker was too heavy to lug to the loft where my main system is so you have to put up with the cell phone picture above and listening tests there. Back...
I went with Meyer Sound speakers which have even more dynamics BUT at the expense of bass.
Why not ?
Alice of Old Vincennes
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328 usedMy list, to make the choice, even more complicated to the OP:
1) Revel Salon 2 used (show themselves on the used market at times around 10K a pair)
2) Revel F328 Be used (show themselves on the used market at times around 10K a pair)
4) Neuman KH 420 or Genelec 8361. New
5) JBL 4367 (slightly over budget new, but used? maybe)
Peace.
I think the HDI3600/HD3800 and Revel F208 are great floor standing speakers. But if you have the budget it opens up interesting options.
Poll: What is your listening distance? (Fall/Winter 2024)
What’s your listening distance? If you have multiple systems, pick all that apply. (Used at least once a week) We have had previous polls in the past but let’s sample the membership again. Feel free to comment with typical SPL or details about your systems. Since many of us have headphones...
www.audiosciencereview.com
You don’t need whole house resonance — so the KH420 has sufficient SPL on reserve for many people. In other words, even though it is not a floor stander, it has plenty of power to reach the SPLs and dynamics associated with premium floorstanders. A lot is said about the benefits of sub/sat setups to place the speakers in ideal locations and subwoofers in ideal location. Floorstanding speakers cannot separate the bass. On the other hand, it does seem that power handling and peak SPLs can often be better achieved with complex multi driver crossovers that you see in setups like the Salon2.
At really high distances though, like 6 m, the KH420 may have some strain.
Pearljam5000
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Weird question
But how much more detailed are your Salon 2 vs KH150?
lowkeyoperations
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Dynaudio Focus 50 actives with built in Dirac Live would be my pick. Dynaudio are very non fatiguing imo.
Plus you could sell all the amps and streamers and break even :lol:
Plus you could sell all the amps and streamers and break even :lol:
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Thoughts on Hearing Details
A key requirement in hearing details is the S/N of the listening space. Using the NIOSH application on an iPhone 13 my media room has a S/N ratio of about 28 dBA, setting the phone on the table where my computer is located in another room NIOSH shows about 30 dBA. The NIOSH application is free. I've not idea how accurate the NIOSH applications is and I haven't calibrated it to some known good source. The S/N ratio in the kitchen is a few dB worse, likely due to the refrigerator and large windows to the outside.
At least one Individual on these forums has reported that the background noise level in the location where they listen is 40dB or so. This may be in a great room that is connected much of the rest of the house.
The teenage daughter of a friend of mine at times comes to the house for dinner and complains that the house is too quiet.
At times I want to hear if the HVAC system is running. If I just listen unaided in the kitchen I can't hear to noise from the return air register down a hallway. If I cup my hands and face in the appropriate direction the effect sensitivity of my hearing in that direction is increased and I can now barely hear the register noise.
If you want to hear details, you need a quiet environment.
I really don't normally pay attention to details, both of these speakers just present sound without calling attention to themselves. That said, here are few examples of details.
Note: the front and back walls of the media room (double, insulated 2x6 walls, double 5/8" drywall) are treated for broad spectrum sound absorption. In listening to solo piano music from the Salon 2's, the end of a sustained note at even the lowest level is audible. The quality and tuning of concert pianos is amazing. The raising of the sustain pedal is audible. Another example, between movements of a selection, the shifting of the orchestra in their seats in audible. These sounds don't intrude on the performance, they just mean that humans and physical instruments are playing the music. I've no idea of the SPL of these low-level sounds, but the Revels certainly reproduce them.
When a hammer in a piano strikes a string (or two or three strings) the impulse is transferred to the bridge which transfers a small impulse to most or all the strings. This can be sensed with a hand on the strings. This event creates a very complex sound that rapid transitions to the vibration of the strings that were actually struck. Subjectively of course, I've always felt that the Salons do an excellent job in reproducing this complex, percussive sound and the transition of the note's strings vibration, which varies between recordings/pianos/musicians. Part of this result may be from the full frequency range of the Salon's plus numerous design details. The very quiet room allows all of this to be heard.
Again IMO, Violins are well produced by the Salons. The instrument sounds to me like a bowstring moving over the violin's strings, not just some unified sound. This could of course be my imagination.
I use the KH150's as pure computer speakers, which is no doubt overkill. The KH150's disappear even with about a 30-inch listening distance. Disappearing is to me an important characteristic of a speaker. Mono signals are located dead center between the speakers. The location of the KH150's well away from walls means that the bass isn't really strong, but that is to be expected due to their location. No doubt I'm getting everything that the content provides although often that content is YouTube. The DAC is high quality. I rarely listen to quality music sources on this system because I can do that in the media room.
I hope the above is at least slightly helpful although it mostly answers a question you didn't ask. There is little to no discussion of the S/N ratio of listening locations on the various forums. An excellent S/N ratio in a space is a requirement to actually hear how well an audio system is performing and IMO, for full enjoyment.
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Super helpful, although a fair question is if you can hear the details of the movement in the orchestra in your Kh150 room? (Could be both the speaker or ambient noise — but I am curious if you explicitly do NOT hear those micro details).
The way you describe listening to the piano, I think you’d like these albums which I measured having very high dynamic range.
Post in thread 'Best Piano Recordings'
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/best-piano-recordings.11036/post-2109969
As noted in the post, KH150's are used as computer speakers, which is overkill. I spend a good part of my day at the computer so it makes sense to use whatever speakers I want for that application. That means the KH150's are typically used to listen to YouTube videos that are lectures and the like. I don't listen to music from a central server on the KH150's because I do that listening in the media room which is 20-feet away.
The only music I normally listen to on the KH150's is oldies from YouTube which are hardly high-res music. I enjoy the oldies, and they sound very good and mean something to me, but they are hardly appropriate tests for speakers.
My only comments on the KH150's are that they disappear and that they provide very stable sonic images. I'm not looking for replacements. I may move the computer and its three monitors next to a wall to help solve some light issues. This will of course improve the bass of the KH150's.
I've provided Revel F208's to both of my sons and their families if that helps with how I view speakers. I certainly could have provided KH150's instead. I also use F208's for surround speakers.
While all these speakers measure well, these questions soon move into subjective areas of which I'm not that comfortable. It is good to be careful taking anyone's opinion as close to authoritative including mine.
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