1 bit DAC launched by TOPPING

[Svend P]

Folded under no pressure and had to ask AI for help.

Peak brainrot.

Or just not enough processing power?

 

[wwenze]

That's peak AI hallucination.

 

[MBO]

I received the D900 today, and I can say with confidence that it has not excited me as much as the D90III Discrete. The D900 certainly sounds better in many ways, but the overall sound setup is similar to an EQ being on, despite the fact that PEQ is off. The D90III sounds more neutral, clear and distinct. The D900 sounds soft, too soft, like through cotton wool. And with PEQ on, the sound can be improved a little, but it still lacks neutrality. I suppose there is some confusion with PEQ... And there is another flaw, when you turn it off, the D900 loses all settings.
The D900 needs a major SW update!

 

[Aaron7]

I received the D900 today, and I can say with confidence that it has not excited me as much as the D90III Discrete. The D900 certainly sounds better in many ways, but the overall sound setup is similar to an EQ being on, despite the fact that PEQ is off. The D90III sounds more neutral, clear and distinct. The D900 sounds soft, too soft, like through cotton wool. And with PEQ on, the sound can be improved a little, but it still lacks neutrality. I suppose there is some confusion with PEQ... And there is another flaw, when you turn it off, the D900 loses all settings.
The D900 needs a major SW update!

I returned mine. The firmware has too many issues. Also the softness you refer to may be a poor clock implementation. It never sounded close to neutral to me either. Overall I loved the Luxsin X9 much more.

 

[mocenigo]

I received the D900 today, and I can say with confidence that it has not excited me as much as the D90III Discrete. The D900 certainly sounds better in many ways, but the overall sound setup is similar to an EQ being on, despite the fact that PEQ is off. The D90III sounds more neutral, clear and distinct. The D900 sounds soft, too soft, like through cotton wool. And with PEQ on, the sound can be improved a little, but it still lacks neutrality. I suppose there is some confusion with PEQ... And there is another flaw, when you turn it off, the D900 loses all settings.
The D900 needs a major SW update!

Interesting, but... how is this audible?

 

[mocenigo]

Not true. The D900 has 32 bit resolution while D90 3 has 16. It is more resolving because it has more processing digital power.

I do not think so. They have 16 and 32 1-bit DACs (voltage sources) in parallel, respectively, per channel. This is very different from 16 and 32 bit resolution.

 

[mocenigo]

It has much more processing power as it uses 32 bit resolution as opposed to 16 for the D90 3

No.
They have 16 and 32 (voltage sources, think of them like 1-bit DACs) in parallel, respectively, per channel.
This is very different from 16 and 32 bit resolution.
Please stop spreading wrong information.

 

[mocenigo]

Not true. Professional studio gear always processes in 32 bits. It is very technical but the added bits of information are less likely to compromise the original signal as processing is done in extended bit mode. Also, it helps with shaping and digital filtering.

Yes, this is only about not losing precision during mastering, then one adds dither and truncates the result.
It is not "very technical" at all: if one must multiply and add various numeric streams, then adding resolution helps reduce the errors, and thus improves the noise floor with respect to a trivial implementation.

This way you can better filter without loss of frequency extension and still provide more gradual filtering to eliminate the ringing effect. That is why those that had the D90 III Discrete report that the D900 has much more detail and at the same time is not as harsh sounding.

But you are misreading 16, resp., 32 1-bit "mini-DACs" in parallel as 16, resp, 32 bit resolution and this is fundamentally, totally, completely, utterly wrong.

 

[audiofun]

There's no difference in "processing power" between the two. Both convert audio signal to DSD 256.
it's just shift register with 32 flip-flops averages better than that with 16, so the noise is a little bit lower.

 

[Chagall]

So PEQ is broken here as well...on a $1,800 DAC.
It was easier to excuse bugs with the DX5 II, a $300 DAC/amp. I wonder what the excuse will be this time.

Topping fixed DX5 II issues quickly partly because vigilant ASR members reported problems and because plenty of units were sold. At $1,800, far fewer people will own this DAC, let alone beta-test it.

 

[Aaron7]

Interesting, but... how is this audible?

So PEQ is broken here as well...on a $1,800 DAC.
It was easier to excuse bugs with the DX5 II, a $300 DAC/amp. I wonder what the excuse will be this time.

Topping fixed DX5 II issues quickly partly because vigilant ASR members reported problems and because plenty of units were sold. At $1,800, far fewer people will own this DAC, let alone beta-test it.

What I have learned is that their programmers are not the best. They fix some things and create many other issues. They are not in the same league as the programmers from Eversolo or Luxsin. The later are in a completely different zone.

 

[Chagall]

What I have learned is that their programmers are not the best. They fix some things and create many other issues. They are not in the same league as the programmers from Eversolo or Luxsin. The later are in a completely different zone.

In my experience with developers, they’re the last ones to blame. I’m sure they’re on par with others in their field. It’s ultimately the product managers and stakeholders who push unfinished products to market.

And who can blame them - their semi-finished products are selling like hotcakes.

 

[mocenigo]

What I have learned is that their programmers are not the best. They fix some things and create many other issues. They are not in the same league as the programmers from Eversolo or Luxsin. The later are in a completely different zone.

This is quite obvious. Hardware, top notch (for DACs and preamps, at least). FW, less so.
So, what was there? Obviously unfocused sound or the PEQ was not working, or... ?

 

[MBO]

Once again about Topping D900.
It refuses to remember the settings in the menu in any case, when disconnecting from the network, you need to re-setting everything..

I still hope for SW Update.

PS: my wife, who has very good hearing, tested the D90 and D900 on quality piano music, said that the D90III Discrete sounds much better, clearer and more natural than the 900. The D900 sounds muddy in the middle.

 

[Svend P]

PS: my wife, who has very good hearing, tested the D90 and D900 on quality piano music, said that the D90III Discrete sounds much better, clearer and more natural than the 900. The D900 sounds muddy in the middle.

From the kitchen, I presume?

 

[MBO]

From the kitchen, I presume?

My wife is a Hardware Engineer, I am also an Electronic Technician and we have been involved in music for many years. So keep your jokes to yourself.

 

[Svend P]

My wife is a Hardware Engineer, I am also an Electronic Technician and we have been involved in music for many years. So keep your jokes to yourself.

Then please explain from an engineering perspective how there can be a difference in sound if they measure identical?

 

[solderdude]

My wife is a Hardware Engineer, I am also an Electronic Technician and we have been involved in music for many years.

Since the following should be well within your reach and technical capabilities....
Record the output of the exact same piece of piano music in question (24/192) for at least 1 minute from both the D90 and D900 and upload.

None of us heard/had these devices side-by-side so you could easily provide us with audio samples of both DACs ending the discussion right there.

Then we can null those and hear/see if there are actual audible differences.
Just being and engineer / technician is not enough to be taken seriously when making a (technical claim).
Engineers and technicians are also human and when looking at optical illusions see the same 'things that aren't there'. It is the same for audio illusions.
So ... unless some technical proof is presented it is just an unfounded opinion.
When that is enough for someone that's fine but don't assume others will take your word for it.

 

[MBO]

I don't want to start a long discussion. I have several DACs, including the Topping D70, Topping D90iii, Sony Studio DAC, and many others. The midrange sounds similar across all of them, but with the new D900, the midrange sounds muffled, diffuse, and very reserved when playing vocals, piano, etc., perhaps very similar to a 180° phase shift, so it sounds very noticeable.

 

[MBO]

It's very interesting that it's not immediately noticeable, because the midrange is masquerading, with very good bass and treble reproduction and an overly perfect spatiality that reminds me too much of an early artificial 3D audio simulation. So it's definitely a problem with the software or hardware design. The D90 Discrete has a completely different sound setup, even though it has practically the same circuit design. We need a very in-depth measurement study with Amir.