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I provided a measurement of my Stax on my head with flat bass extension to below 20hz, which you dismissed because it is not on a proper measurement rig. I often listen to things like Lorn on my 404LE, which has fundamentals at 35hz and would sound completely wrong if the bass response was as...

People do have different sized heads tho. You yourself proved this by saying that you were never able to get full bass extension with your Stax after 30 years of ownership and that they just "hang there" like speakers, when me and many people I know have no trouble achieving this. I think...

:rolleyes: Anyway, without new information there'll just be more talking in circles at this point.

That is not his current rig. The above is an IEC coupler and a pinnae from a miniDSP EARS. Right now he uses an actual GRAS system.

He's stated multiple times that he's choosing measurements based on his subjective listening impressions, regardless of whether these listening impressions are accurate or not to how the headphone should perform for most people. And the validity of these impressions *should* be called into...

The newer 007 shows a very small ~2db peak, not 7-10db like on Amir's measurements. Those are very much badly sealed.

If you say so. Isn't that what this entire argument has been about? Several people have made compelling arguments with data to back them up, so it is disappointing that you are unable to do the same.

This will make the rest of the frequency response affected by ear canal and pinnae gain inaccurate, which is why I excluded it. But bass extension should be the same. I was going to suggest that perhaps your head is narrow, but I felt that could have been perceived as rude. However, I know many...

Here is the measured (and perceived) bass extension of my Stax 404LE taken with the headphone actually on my head, with no additional pressure applied. This is taken with a capsule from a measurement microphone attached to an earplug. I also had no trouble getting deep subbass out of a Lambda...

Creative Aurvana Live is a good example of an "over ear" pad that is small enough to be almost on ear for many people (me included), yet still seals perfectly fine. The Diana pads are much larger, and have a bit of a bowl shape to them which will give more room for the ear to fit outside of the...

A hard, flat surface is quite different from managing to seal on the soft, malleable outer edge of your ear (which would also get squished against the side of your head in this scenario). Besides, I really doubt these headphones would actually be "on ear" for the vast majority of people. You...

It's not complicated at all, just put the headphones on your head and listen. The issues here have to do with how the headphones interact with the measurement rig, because the measurement rig is not the same as a person's head.

As has been discussed, bad seal is what's causing the bass issues, and might also be causing the treble issues too. From what I understand, Amir apparently did get measurements that sealed better, but did not use them because he prefers the extra bass boost of an EQ derived from the unsealed...

Ideally you would want the headphone rig to have both the shape of a head and have something like silicone on the sides to provide the physical characteristics of real skin. Accurate simulation of pad seal across different pad types is dependent on both factors.

This is just resonance and and additional distortion adding weight to the bass. If you break seal only slightly, the rolloff behavior and peak will happen at a lower frequency, which can sound pleasant but will be "objectively" worse and less accurate.

The loss of seal is weird. Crinacle was able to measure flat bass extension on his rig, and the pads don't look like they would particularly have trouble achieving seal. -10db at 30hz definitely doesn't seem right when people rave about the subbass on these.

Crinacle at least has an excuse since he measures store demos and doesn't always get optimal conditions to be able to run THD accurately. Tho he could definitely run some of the usual things like CSD, maybe a few square waves and such. On the other hand, Oratory actually seems to believe that...

They can, if designed properly. You need to allow the driver to excurse linearly as far as possible and give it a beefy enough magnet structure to control it throughout that motion. However this usually also makes said driver very bassy without significant further tuning. A decent modern example...

BAs can distort a ton if you bass boost.

He claims that IR and FR show the exact same thing, when this is pretty easy to disprove. I can take the same measurement of a headphone with two different ADCs and get very different IRs even while the FR remains totally identical, as do things like decay. Plus, REW even lets you generate a...