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I was simply asking why someon You OK? What irony? Exactly WHERE have I said the 3800 sounds a certain way?! Let’s recap... I came here and saw a “not recommended” opinion for a “review” of an audio product that didn’t even include listening to correlate with the measurements. Seeing as how...

“In my view, we should still reward equipment that is closer to "perfect" and the only way to do that is to call out deviations from it, even IF they may be inaudible.” That’s 100% fine. Let’s do that! But let’s not “not recommend” audio gear that has supposed measurable issues that can’t even...

We measure audio gear to eliminate bias and personal preference in reference to how an audio product faithfully puts out the signal that was put into it, BUT those measurements must be grounded in what is and isn’t audible, otherwise what is the point? Let’s start measuring audio gear way...

What part about me saying I ordered it 2 days ago didn’t you understand?

It’s actually fairly simple. Set a known good piece of reference audio gear beside an unknown piece and LISTEN to each in a blind ABX test. If you can’t hear a “problem”, is there a problem? If a measurement that’s is considered poor/worse/etc can NOT be heard, WHY is it relevant to the...

Agreed. That’s why I was shocked when he said he didn’t recommend this AVR without even bothering to listen to it. That’s a pretty unique way to “review” a piece of AUDIO gear. I’m all for measuring audio gear, but if you’re going to make a stink about some aspects of the measurements, it...

Yes. Agreed. That’s fine for you. I was simply replying to the person who said “No one has suggested that you don't or shouldn't listen to audio gear before making your decision.” But I am curious, since you say “In some cases, that's all one needs, in other cases, may be not”… what about the...

“Yes. Amir performed interesting measurements and then commented it.” I didn’t find anything particularly interesting about the measurements. They’re the same ones we see time and time again. What WOULD have been interesting is if he could have correlated his listening experience to the...

“No one has suggested that you don't or shouldn't listen to audio gear before making your decision.” Have you even read this thread?? Folks have said all they need are measurements.

Where have I said a good measuring piece of audio gear can’t ever sound good without listening to it? Measuring is important to designing any audio gear. I’m saying if you claim a piece of audio gear is not good, poor, etc because of measurements that may not even be audible, that claim should...

Just change title to “Denon AVR-X3800h Overview & Measurements” with the disclaimer that his measurement results likely aren’t audible to most people, and since he didn’t even bother listening to an audio product, he’ll leave the conclusion of it’s actual audio quality to the people who DO...

I understood he said it had poor/worse measurements than a previous model, and Denon avr’s were his go to recommendation up until now, but because of these measurements (which we’ve learned by you all in this thread, are most likely not even audible) he can’t recommend this model….without even...

Hmm…Maybe it’s because he/she ordered this 2 days ago to replace his/her 3600, and ran across this non-review while looking up info on the new features, etc. Then he/she was floored by the ridiculous idea of not listening to an audio product under review. Lol. And rambling is what has been...

Great! It doesn’t measure poorly. Then why was it not recommended??

Gaslighting is strong around here! Lol. Then maybe you, as a MAJOR CONTRIBUTOR, can explain why, if this avr sounds a good as the previous model to the human ear (since the poor/worse/etc measurements aren’t audible) and has more features, WHY would it not be recommended as an AUDIO device to...

What’s the point in looking behind the curtain if what you see has no relevance to the sound an audio component makes?! That’s been my question all along. Lol.

“The only person I see making it personal is you.” Really? Please quote where I said anything derogatory to anyone one person… I’ve been called troll and other derogatory references for simply asking questions and being persistent when someone’s ramblings never answered the question. They...

Are people so fragile here that they can’t simply explain things without getting “personal”? It’s crazy. I’m 100% honest that I thought this was actually an audio gear “review” site. Not just notes on measurements that may or may not be audible. Seems like a giant waste of time. In my 30+ yrs in...

“Do you realize how often you make statements that go against your initial point?!!” No. Not really. You must have missed the next post or so where I expounded on that analogy by saying… “Would you accept a car review where the reviewer never even bothered to drive the car? They just posted...

Yes. I agree. But we’re talking about DAC performance, right? Isn’t that the major complaint? Who exactly has proven they can actually hear the “poor” measurement he has pointed out?