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Dynaudio Special 40 - WTF!

TankTop

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I have a pair and I’ve messaged Danny and Amirm to see if all parties would be open to a before and after testing of these speakers. I’ll put my speakers up for testing if the other parties involved are willing to donate a little time, testing and parts. I’m willing to sacrifice my warranty and shipping plus time with my babies, not cheap!!!
Just an update, I took them off of furniture and put the on Dyn stand 10’s as well as pulled them away from walls. I think I solved almost all the issues I was having.

It was a love hate relationship before but now it’s just love. They aren’t perfect speakers but they are an emotional speaker that touches your soul. Red Rocks isn’t a great accustical venue but it is magical, don’t forget to stop and enjoy the music.
 

YSC

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Just an update, I took them off of furniture and put the on Dyn stand 10’s as well as pulled them away from walls. I think I solved almost all the issues I was having.

It was a love hate relationship before but now it’s just love. They aren’t perfect speakers but they are an emotional speaker that touches your soul. Red Rocks isn’t a great accustical venue but it is magical, don’t forget to stop and enjoy the music.
Considering the resonances or so are very high Q, and that the sloping is generally okish with a bit bass tilt, and that most room modes will be more prominent, I do agree it can be a great sounding speaker, I always surprise with really Sxxt measauring speakers like the $30 computer bundle ones or laptop built in speaker actually sounds decent (ok-ish) to our ears when playing music without comparison, so this although not really great measuring, can be a significant upgrade to whatever we are used to pop into (restaurant and mall PA for example). So to me it can be a entertaining one, but definitely not so special or magical about it. while with mention of Revel, I notice that Revels do have a smooth roll off and not bumped up bass, where in some cases or moods the boosted bass do sound better than without.
 

PuX

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wow

all the reviews I've seen until now were positive, saying the Special 40 is great and sounds better than the competition at this price.

and yet it doesn't measure that well. I hope someone will send one in for Amir to test in the same environment as usual to confirm how good/bad it actually is (unmodified of course).
 

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wow

all the reviews I've seen until now were positive, saying the Special 40 is great and sounds better than the competition at this price.

and yet it doesn't measure that well. I hope someone will send one in for Amir to test in the same environment as usual to confirm how good/bad it actually is (unmodified of course).
No offense, but why does Amir need to review this when there is so much information out there?



They aren't bad, but it is well known that in the states Dynaudio does not offer a good value. Given the price these in particular are meh to me, but we already know that price does not correlate with quality. I suggest you stay away from the review sites and youtube reviewers that are simply marketing arms of the speaker companies.
 

PuX

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No offense, but why does Amir need to review this when there is so much information out there?
how else would you compare speakers (or anything else) other than measuring them on the same equipment?

also your comment may sound a bit funny considering there are tons of other measurements of the same popular headphones etc. on other websites, that does not mean Amir's reviews have any less value.

and about Stereophile: every time I look at Stereophile measurements, I can't really figure out what the chart is showing, they are not very easy to read. somehow Amir's measurements are clearer, maybe his comments help.

for example, here's a measurement of Special 25.
it looks more even than Special 40, but seems like there's a peak at 10k? and I am not quite sure how severe it is with the scale they are using. looks like maybe 3-4db?
 

Chromatischism

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I'm not familiar with that tweeter, but most 1" dome tweeters start to have rapid onset of distortion down within an octave of fs, which can't be much less than 1khz on that unit. Crossing that thing much below 2k can't be ideal.
It's insanity. Tweeters simply cannot absorb or dissipate the power/heat at those frequencies and at any decent levels. Not just dynamic compression you'll be dealing with, but cooked/vaporized VCs.
I'm running a 19mm (0.75") tweeter crossed at 1800 Hz. It's all about the implementation.

(yes, it's in a deep-ish waveguide)
 
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how else would you compare speakers (or anything else) other than measuring them on the same equipment?

also your comment may sound a bit funny considering there are tons of other measurements of the same popular headphones etc. on other websites, that does not mean Amir's reviews have any less value.

and about Stereophile: every time I look at Stereophile measurements, I can't really figure out what the chart is showing, they are not very easy to read. somehow Amir's measurements are clearer, maybe his comments help.

for example, here's a measurement of Special 25.
it looks more even than Special 40, but seems like there's a peak at 10k? and I am not quite sure how severe it is with the scale they are using. looks like maybe 3-4db?
There are loads of issues with your view. First the measurements I posted are professional measurements. They are more than sufficient enough to understand these speakers. There is simply much more data concerning these speakers than most. More than enough to know with certainty their issues and that they are not a good value unless the finish is worth thousands to you. In many ways Amir's data is collected in a manner not too dissimilar from those above--it is just that the Klippel automates the microphone placement. What you can't compare are these measurements to the myriad amateur headphone measurements on the internet. You can, for instance, certainly compare Amir's headphone data to that of Sean Olive. More, headphone measurements are not as dependable as those for speakers. There is a high margin of error. Amir has stated this numerous times. You can't fully trust any of them, including Amir's. The measurement technology is not there yet. Part of Amir's project is to figure out the limits of what he considers the best measurement apparatus. This is why he relies on EQ for confirmation. Again, what I think you should do first is learn to understand who actually knows what they are talking about. That you seemingly came to the conclusion that you mentioned about these speakers shows that you are listening to a lot of bad reviewers. We're here to help in this regard. You are absolutely right that both of these measurements can be hard to understand. This seems deliberate on Stereophile's part. But if you have any specific questions about these measurements, just ask.
 

TankTop

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I owned a pair and I’m far from a professional, the S40 is magical and broken at the same time. The tweeter is the most defined tweeter that I have ever heard and the bass is absolutely amazing out of the size of speaker that it is, using my you UMIK-1 I measured 97 dB at 47 Hz at roughly 2m listening to Primus My Name is Mud. That said I don’t have specific measurements but I think it’s the crossover that causes an occasional weird harmonic, it’s like moving your head through an inversion layer if that makes any sense. Also far off access listening is horrible and yes the speaker boxes create quite a bit of sound. Most of this is a non-issue if you are listening in a dedicated listening room in a single position.
 

Sugarbubble

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If you own them, feel free to comment, otherwise your opinion has zero value. Not a good value, zero value. My wife spends about 10k a month on clothes, to her, they are a good value. Chanel is expensive. Spending 3k on a speaker means nothing to some people and is a years income to others. Value is relative. I own a pair in my beach house and they do good service. I have them in red and think they are beautiful. To each their own, but if you think measurements tell you how speakers will sound to you in your listening room, then you are misinformed.
 

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how else would you compare speakers (or anything else) other than measuring them on the same equipment?

also your comment may sound a bit funny considering there are tons of other measurements of the same popular headphones etc. on other websites, that does not mean Amir's reviews have any less value.

and about Stereophile: every time I look at Stereophile measurements, I can't really figure out what the chart is showing, they are not very easy to read. somehow Amir's measurements are clearer, maybe his comments help.

for example, here's a measurement of Special 25.
it looks more even than Special 40, but seems like there's a peak at 10k? and I am not quite sure how severe it is with the scale they are using. looks like maybe 3-4db?

Just noticed the second part of your comment. Your instincts are are right to be concerned about that hump at 10kHz at first glance, but Atkinson writes that the horizontal directivity of the speakers drops off very quickly in that region and can result in a loss of presence in that region!

"The tweeter's response drops rapidly to the sides above 10kHz, which will perhaps make the speaker sound somewhat lifeless in very large rooms. More likely, however, it will leave the mid-treble a little emphasized."

Make sure you read the review carefully. (But, yes, his directivity graphs suck compared to Amir's, and it can be hard to tell.) While it provides more bass than the special 40, that issue would prevent me from getting it as there are better options out there and, importantly, that may be hard to correct via EQ.
 
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YSC

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If you own them, feel free to comment, otherwise your opinion has zero value. Not a good value, zero value. My wife spends about 10k a month on clothes, to her, they are a good value. Chanel is expensive. Spending 3k on a speaker means nothing to some people and is a years income to others. Value is relative. I own a pair in my beach house and they do good service. I have them in red and think they are beautiful. To each their own, but if you think measurements tell you how speakers will sound to you in your listening room, then you are misinformed.
well, everyone's room will always have same room modes in the same location regardless of your speaker choice, so if I owned speaker A and I know how it measures anechoically, and I know the measurement of speaker B I can predict it pretty well how it will sound in my room... and room correction are some of the key features of how the big guys are doing to counter most common problems.

P.S. by your logic it doesn't matter whether you own that speaker or not one's opinion will always have zero value, as you don't own the same room as I do and don't put same stuffs around at same location, your speaker experience in your room will never be remotely similar to how it sounded in my room, just saying..
 

TankTop

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On a positive note the Morel driver loves power and you drive the piss out of these speakers likely damaging your hearing long before the speaker breaks a sweat.
 

YSC

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Tired of pseudo science being used to prop up valueless opinion. No need to argue about it. A waste of time.
I just got the feeling of puzzled, mind explaining why anechoic measurements don't tell you how it likely will sound in your room, but subjective opinions from owners will be better? in my own experience the same speaker, when moved from living room into bedroom sounds quite different to be noticeable, and it's called room modes.

one could never be perfectly sure what the room modes will affect the measured speaker in exact, hell even between units there are a few db here or there variations, so if by science you mean I can have exact picture in my mind how the speaker will sound and measure in my room it's of course not the case, but then subjection opinions from others don't matter also, they didn't listen at your MLP either. in such case please shine lights on how that will be better than publishing the measurements, which most very big manufacturers invest millions in anechoic chambers to do so to aid their designs
 

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Tired of pseudo science being used to prop up valueless opinion. No need to argue about it. A waste of time.
Pseudoscience?? These measurements are the results of research undergraduate engineering students can understand. Do you not trust microscopes or telescopes either? You trust your vision over them? Do you read subjective reviews of television color calibration to feel good when someone writes that your tv offers tremendous colorality? Why did Dynaudio invest in that multi-million dollar measurement chamber then if they didn't want it to help them engineer better speakers? The amount of mental gymnastics needed to come to a science-based forum in which you can engage with and learn from the very best audio engineers in the world and think you can dispense lazy, thoughtless criticism is laughable.
 

akarma

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Why did Dynaudio invest in that multi-million dollar measurement chamber then if they didn't want it to help them engineer better speakers
Well DM 2/7 and emit m20 are very smooth and accurate speakers. Pairs are matched very good too.
 

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Well DM 2/7 and emit m20 are very smooth and accurate speakers. Pairs are matched very good too.
I think that some of their lower priced speakers are their best bargains. Other than bass extension the expensive ones don't seem to offer much more than them other than looks. I'd certainly take the ones you point out over the Special 25s mentioned above. (I've read your posts on them.)

I briefly owned what I believe was the first speaker engineered through that facility, the Evoke 10s. The bass response was impressive and they sounded pretty good, but they weren't neutral--a Harbeth-like curve was evident in my measurements. They were able to get what they wanted with them, but that sound isn't for me and they were extremely hard to justify over some Revel M16s, which not only are superlative but available to me then for half the price.

M16 V EVOKE10.jpg


As you can see, they are completely different speakers but the room dictates everything below 400Hz as mentioned above. The bass sounded the same, which means that the Evokes competed output-wise with the Revels, which have some of the best bass you can find in bookshelves!

Now compare everything above that for the Revel measurement to Amir's predicted in-room frequency response. It matches up really, really, well. Oh my. It's like we can understand speakers made with science and engineering through good old fashioned science and engineering.

And if you are wondering if the Evokes match up to other's measurements, why, yes, they do too.

001683-0.jpg


(I still find it hilarious that these moron, supposedly "professional" audio reviewers don't understand room modes. I really do wonder sometimes if they even care.)
 
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Is it measurement of one channel from sweet spot? What distance?
I don't want to derail the thread. But I posted these measurements here originally:

 
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