Buying Genelec questions.

[brockers13]

Hi new member looking for information.

I’m semi retired about to move into a new apartment. Listening room about 5*4 meters.

Before a divorce a long time ago used to have some fairly good audio. Linn sondek, Naim, Gale 401.....all gone.
Now I want to buy a pair of Genelec speakers first for good sound and importantly I want them to last and have support.
I won’t be able to crank them up in the new place.

So my question is will the 8030c sound good at low to medium volume.
Would 8020d be better.

For home use only.

Thanks

 

[stevenswall]

They will sound the same. The only difference is SPL and bass extension. Get the largest ones you can afford if you are worried about those things.

If you plan on building out a Genelec system and using GLM, go for it.

If you're just doing a 2 channel system I'd highly recommend going with the Kali IN-8 V2 and a sub for a similar price... It will go much louder and a little deeper with just the IN-8 monitors, and significantly so with the subwoofer. $1300 vs $1400 for the Genelecs, and you're getting a coaxial driver and a woofer and a four way system instead of a two way.

 

[witwald]

Your listening room is medium sized. How far away will you be listening to these speakers? Even at low listening levels you may find that the SPLs in your room at a more distant than near-field listening position need the speakers to be driven relatively hard. Of course, it will depend on your actual needs.

The 8020d is very compact, with a 4" (105mm) woofer. It's really designed for desktop near-field monitoring situations, and I doubt that it would transfer well to a room type listening situation. It's rated by Genelec at 100dB SPL, with a frequency response 62Hz – 20kHz, ±2.5dB.

I think that the 8030C is a better choice. It uses a 5" (130mm) woofer, which should provide a bit more bass extension, as well as slightly higher output. It's rated by Genelec at 104dB SPL, with a frequency response 54Hz – 20kHz, ±2dB.

I don't know your budget, but for home music listening I think that the 8050B would be preferred. It uses an 8" (205mm) woofer, and it's rated by Genelec at 110dB SPL, which seems likely to be more than adequate for your application and should provide plenty of headroom when listening at lower SPLs. It also has a more extended frequency response, of 38Hz – 20kHz, ±2dB.

 

[brockers13]

Thanks for the input, appreciated.

I don’t think high levels are going to be feasible, because of other residents in the building, for that it’s headphones im afraid. This is probably going to be a one off purchase ( I hope) which is one of the reasons I’m drawn to Genelec ( for reliability and support) .

Listening distance will be about 1.25- 2 meters

Will they still sound good at low levels?

Budget is maxed at the 8030 for now, but maybe a sub could be added at a later date.

 

[brockers13]

Your listening room is medium sized. How far away will you be listening to these speakers? Even at low listening levels you may find that the SPLs in your room at a more distant than near-field listening position need the speakers to be driven relatively hard. Of course, it will depend on your actual needs.

The 8020d is very compact, with a 4" (105mm) woofer. It's really designed for desktop near-field monitoring situations, and I doubt that it would transfer well to a room type listening situation. It's rated by Genelec at 100dB SPL, with a frequency response 62Hz – 20kHz, ±.52dB.

I think that the 8030C is a better choice. It uses a 5" (130mm) woofer, which should provide a bit more bass extension, as well as slightly higher output. It's rated by Genelec at 104dB SPL, with a frequency response 54Hz – 20kHz, ±2dB.

I don't know your budget, but for home music listening I think that the 8050B would be preferred. It uses an 8" (205mm) woofer, and it's rated by Genelec at 110dB SPL, which seems likely to be more than adequate for your application and should provide plenty of headroom when listening at lower SPLs. It also has a more extended frequency response, of 38Hz – 20kHz, ±2dB.

Your listening room is medium sized. How far away will you be listening to these speakers? Even at low listening levels you may find that the SPLs in your room at a more distant than near-field listening position need the speakers to be driven relatively hard. Of course, it will depend on your actual needs.

The 8020d is very compact, with a 4" (105mm) woofer. It's really designed for desktop near-field monitoring situations, and I doubt that it would transfer well to a room type listening situation. It's rated by Genelec at 100dB SPL, with a frequency response 62Hz – 20kHz, ±.52dB.

I think that the 8030C is a better choice. It uses a 5" (130mm) woofer, which should provide a bit more bass extension, as well as slightly higher output. It's rated by Genelec at 104dB SPL, with a frequency response 54Hz – 20kHz, ±2dB.

I don't know your budget, but for home music listening I think that the 8050B would be preferred. It uses an 8" (205mm) woofer, and it's rated by Genelec at 110dB SPL, which seems likely to be more than adequate for your application and should provide plenty of headroom when listening at lower SPLs. It also has a more extended frequency response, of 38Hz – 20kHz, ±2dB.

Budget is maxed at the 8030 for now, but maybe a sub could be added at a later date

 

[theyellowspecial]

Extension still matters at low levels, probably even more so since music is less engaging at low volumes. So I'd go for the bigger speakers, unless you have the ability to add a subwoofer.

 

[witwald]

Listening distance will be about 1.25- 2 meters. Will they still sound good at low levels?

Those distances are quite close to the speakers, so a lot less output from the speaker is needed to get to a comfortable listening level, so the sound pressure in the room further away will be a lot less.

Can you define what you mean by low levels? Is it say 80dB long term average (averaged across the full length of an track)?

I think that it's difficult for any speaker to "sound good at low levels", unless it has an unbalanced frequency response that approximates the effects of a loudness switch on an amplifier. It's just the way that our ears respond to sound pressure and frequency.

You can always rely on a bit of frequency response equalisation to get things sounding the way you like at the desired listening levels. That's all it should take with the Genelecs.

This then leads to the question: What will you be using as the music source, and does it have some capability to perform frequency response equalisation?

 

[brockers13]

Extension still matters at low levels, probably even more so since music is less engaging at low volumes. So I'd go for the bigger speakers, unless you have the ability to add a subwoofer.

Agreed why I’m leaning to 8030, slightly off op, Do you think Neumann KH 80 are as well built/reliable? I’m seriously trying to buy something that will last me.

Incidentally last week I bought a pair of Focal alpha 65 evo, a good sound imo, but I think a little large for the new place AND a very loud buzz on one of them when input is off also the other failed to sleep. Sent both back, And hence increasing the budget and trying to buy some decent QC. the Focal’s I bought were made in China.

 

[LTig]

Thanks for the input, appreciated.

I don’t think high levels are going to be feasible, because of other residents in the building, for that it’s headphones im afraid. This is probably going to be a one off purchase ( I hope) which is one of the reasons I’m drawn to Genelec ( for reliability and support) .

Listening distance will be about 1.25- 2 meters

Will they still sound good at low levels?

Budget is maxed at the 8030 for now, but maybe a sub could be added at a later date.

I think the 8030 is the better match for this distance. I use 8020s on the desktop and my wife uses 8020s in her room but they for most situations they need a small sub to get down to 40 Hz in room. In my wifes room the speakers are close to the wall and one close top the corner so room gain helps a lot - and my wife doesn't like bass so for her the 8020s are fine. For my desktop I added a small sub underneath which I got dead for a pizza and could repair for no costs.

 

[witwald]

Extension still matters at low levels, probably even more so since music is less engaging at low volumes. So I'd go for the bigger speakers, unless you have the ability to add a subwoofer.

That first sentence, in particular, provides some sage advice. It's definitely been my experience that having plenty of bass extension makes the listening experience at low levels much more rewarding and engaging.

If the budget is extends only to the Genelec 8030C, then another option for wide range music reproduction would likely be the JBL 308P MkII with the JBL LSR310S 10" Powered Studio Subwoofer. That would provide a turnkey loudspeaker system with a reasonable amount of bass extension, which you could set to suit your taste and home-related factors. Maybe @ShiZo could comment on the experience with this setup wen used at low listening levels, as well as more broadly.

 

[brockers13]

Those distances are quite close to the speakers, so a lot less output from the speaker is needed to get to a comfortable listening level, so the sound pressure in the room further away will be a lot less.

Can you define what you mean by low levels? Is it say 80dB long term average (averaged across the full length of an track)?

I think that it's difficult for any speaker to "sound good at low levels", unless it has an unbalanced frequency response that approximates the effects of a loudness switch on an amplifier. It's just the way that our ears respond to sound pressure and frequency.

You can always rely on a bit of frequency response equalisation to get things sounding the way you like at the desired listening levels. That's all it should take with the Genelecs.

This then leads to the question: What will you be using as the music source, and does it have some capability to perform frequency response equalisation?

I can’t really say on the levels, I suppose a reasonable loud tv level will be fine, I hope. I was painting the new place yesterday prior to the move. Concrete floor with a bad parquet floor on top, and there’s a -20db sound proofing going down with a 12mm laminate going on top of that. ( so rooms going to be bright)
Anyway the guy down stairs came up, said he’d had his tv on 10 ( what ever that mean) and did I hear it, no I didn’t. So I’m going to play it as loud as I can get away with, but got to get on with neighbours so room shaking bass is a no no I guess.

Source initially is a Sony nw 55 playing Flac and hi res. Later a better player with balanced outputs.

 

[NepinMn]

I've been using 8330a as desktop monitors and love them for that usage. However, I ordered a 7350a recently and am curious about how that will make a difference.

I don't have any experience with 8020 or 8030, so can't speak for those.

The sub is backordered and sweetwater rep has been telling me "any day now" (paraphrasing) for two weeks now.

I think beyond listening distances of 1.5 meters, I'd look for something with more SPL.

The main reason I am adding a sub is because I consistently get the red led light when I am playing music that has good low extension at higher SPLs.

 

[N9R]

I've had my 8030C for a few weeks now.

They spend most of their time playing at very low levels, <60dB, occasionally being let loose at punishing levels, 100dB+, which they handle very gracefully, at least more gracefully than most of the rattling objects in my room!

I find them absolutely delightful to listen to either quiet or loud, and the tonal character remains consistent. They definitely don't need high levels to "come to life". Even-handed with any kind of music. The smooth dispersion make them very forgiving of position, and the dip-switches let me get the tuning just right for where I wanted them.

I do listen in a nearfield, 1m, desktop position - but to be honest they sound pretty much the same at 2. Genelec's own listening distance charts put 2m firmly in the comfort zone for this model, it shouldn't be a concern.

I did integrate a sub after a while, but really it was mostly to take the load off in order to reach higher SPLs and fill out the very lowest of bass - they were perfectly adequate on their own.

Build quality I couldn't possibly fault. Handling them out of the boxes I felt I'd bought something with real quality. The knuckle-rap felt like I was hitting a small, smooth boulder! I still give them a knock now and again, very satisfying!

Zero issues with interference, sleep mode works perfectly. I couldn't be happier with them in any aspect. Easily the best speakers I've owned - I've had the usual suspects for the UK market over the years: Linn, Kef, Tannoy, Mission - these are in a different class.

 

[brockers13]

I've had my 8030C for a few weeks now.

They spend most of their time playing at very low levels, <60dB, occasionally being let loose at punishing levels, 100dB+, which they handle very gracefully, at least more gracefully than most of the rattling objects in my room!

I find them absolutely delightful to listen to either quiet or loud, and the tonal character remains consistent. They definitely don't need high levels to "come to life". Even-handed with any kind of music. The smooth dispersion make them very forgiving of position, and the dip-switches let me get the tuning just right for where I wanted them.

I do listen in a nearfield, 1m, desktop position - but to be honest they sound pretty much the same at 2. Genelec's own listening distance charts put 2m firmly in the comfort zone for this model, it shouldn't be a concern.

I did integrate a sub after a while, but really it was mostly to take the load off in order to reach higher SPLs and fill out the very lowest of bass - they were perfectly adequate on their own.

Build quality I couldn't possibly fault. Handling them out of the boxes I felt I'd bought something with real quality. The knuckle-rap felt like I was hitting a small, smooth boulder! I still give them a knock now and again, very satisfying!

Zero issues with interference, sleep mode works perfectly. I couldn't be happier with them in any aspect. Easily the best speakers I've owned - I've had the usual suspects for the UK market over the years: Linn, Kef, Tannoy, Mission - these are in a different class.

Thanks, that’s reassuring on the quality at lower levels, the quality of build and support is a big draw for me also, in an active system there’s lots inside potentially to fail, it’s a fair amount of dough to me anyway, and I expect them to last.

 

[witwald]

I can’t really say on the levels, I suppose a reasonable loud TV level will be fine, I hope.

Do you have a mobile phone? There are some free SPL meter apps that could help provide a measured SPL number that shouldn't be too far off the mark.

I was painting the new place yesterday prior to the move. Concrete floor with a bad parquet floor on top, and there’s a -20db sound proofing going down with a 12mm laminate going on top of that. ( so rooms going to be bright)

If you've got a solid concrete floor, then it should provide quite good sound isolation across a range of frequencies. There will likely be some structural resonances at low frequencies, but those are probably going to be excited by footfalls rather than music. The isolation/damping material between the concrete and the parquetry is there to help stop sound transmission from footsteps. Seems like the architect took a few things into account in the design.

A floor rug of some sort will help to dampen down the acoustic brightness of the room.

Anyway the guy down stairs came up, said he’d had his tv on 10 ( what ever that mean) and did I hear it, no I didn’t. So I’m going to play it as loud as I can get away with, but got to get on with neighbours so room shaking bass is a no no I guess.

That's probably a good sign. You could always try your setup at one of the higher listening levels that you might use and ask him for his opinion as to whether he can hear it.

Source initially is a Sony nw 55 playing Flac and hi res. Later a better player with balanced outputs.

The Sony NW-A55 seems to have a 6-band equalizer. That might help you to tune the frequency response of your system at your preferred listening level. Sony state: "You can select an equalizer setting to suit your mood or current activity. You can also preset your equalizer settings as a custom setting." Those custom settings could prove to be handy.

 

[N9R]

Thanks, that’s reassuring on the quality at lower levels, the quality of build and support is a big draw for me also, in an active system there’s lots inside potentially to fail, it’s a fair amount of dough to me anyway, and I expect them to last.

That's certainly what I feel like I got - something designed to last. Genelec have been working in this sector - active, small form factor - for many years, and I think it shows.

Whether a Neumann model would be competitive, I couldn't say - I haven't heard their speakers. There are certainly many happy users, just like Genelec. They could well be equal - but I couldn't conceive of them being better! If you can demo some options, it would of course be worth considering.

 

[brockers13]

Do you have a mobile phone? There are some free SPL meter apps that could help provide a measured SPL number that shouldn't be too far off the mark.

If you've got a solid concrete floor, then it should provide quite good sound isolation across a range of frequencies. There will likely be some structural resonances at low frequencies, but those are probably going to be excited by footfalls rather than music. The isolation/damping material between the concrete and the parquetry is there to help stop sound transmission from footsteps. Seems like the architect took a few things into account in the design.

A floor rug of some sort will help to dampen down the acoustic brightness of the room.

That's probably a good sign. You could always try your setup at one of the higher listening levels that you might use and ask him for his opinion as to whether he can hear it.

The Sony NW-A55 seems to have a 6-band equalizer. That might help you to tune the frequency response of your system at your preferred listening level. Sony state: "You can select an equalizer setting to suit your mood or current activity. You can also preset your equalizer settings as a custom setting." Those custom settings could prove to be handy.

Probably didn’t explain, at present is concrete and parquet before I move in I’m having the soundproof layer then laminate on top. So should be good. Yes it’s mainly hard shoes and scraping chairs that will be the problem I hope.
Good idea on the phone Spl app.

 

[Sancus]

I would consider the Neumann KH-120 as well, it measures slightly better overall and may play somewhat louder in bass, though it's tough to compare.

 

[theyellowspecial]

Agreed why I’m leaning to 8030, slightly off op, Do you think Neumann KH 80 are as well built/reliable? I’m seriously trying to buy something that will last me.

Incidentally last week I bought a pair of Focal alpha 65 evo, a good sound imo, but I think a little large for the new place AND a very loud buzz on one of them when input is off also the other failed to sleep. Sent both back, And hence increasing the budget and trying to buy some decent QC. the Focal’s I bought were made in China.

I'm sure any of the top active options will last you. They're designed to be used at their limits for hours every day for years on end.

IIRC the KH80 has a relatively shallow in-room response that may be bright at normal listening distances, especially in a hard reflective room.

 

[Ultrasonic]

I don’t think high levels are going to be feasible, because of other residents in the building,

Quick comment - this point would make me discount the use of a subwoofer personally.